GPS

[davensj]

I just bought a eTrex Legand, Does anybody have a list of way points for the Pine Barren area?

[RednekF350]

The pine barrens are vast and you need to focus on a particular area that you are interested in for lat/lons.
One of the easiest ways to obtain latitude and longitude geographicals for your gps unit is to use maptech.com.
Go to "online maps" on their site and type in a location . Bring up the first USGS quad map listed for the area that you are interested in.
As you drag your mouse over the map you will see the latitude and longitude displayed in the box on your left.
You can select a format on Maptech of degrees minutes and seconds (dd mm ss) or degrees and decimals of a minute(dd mm.mm). Make sure your unit format in your gps is set for whatever format that you intend to enter into your gps. Mixing formats will throw you out hundreds or thousands of feet. Read your manual about the various formats.
The lat/lon indicated on Maptech is extremely accurate. I am a land surveyor and I use it all the time for initial research when preparing project maps.
Scott

[wis bang]

Delorme 'Street Atlas' and 'Topo USA' do the same thing. You can locate alot of things and get the lat/lon.

[bruset]

Delorme 'Street Atlas' and 'Topo USA' do the same thing. You can locate alot of things and get the lat/lon.

Neither of them are true USGS 1:24000 topo quads like you would get on Topozone.com.

TopoUSA looses a LOT of detail that is on the paper maps.

[wis bang]

I agree, Topo USU w/ it's 50' contours is almost useless in most of New Jersey, and it only gives a feel for the land topography when there are large changes in contour. I think the latest street atlas is more useful as it outlines most state & federal boundaries in green and has most roads and the locations of all the abandoned and active RR lines too

[Boyd]

I know this thread is a little old, but I'm new around here and maybe my impressions will be useful to someone anyway. I've got two GPS'es - a Magellan Meridian Gold portable that I got two years ago and a Garmin StreetPilot 2620 automotive unit that I got two months ago.

I am really a "Mac Person" and do some pretty advanced things on several machines including CAD, 3d modeling, computer animation, digital video, etc. Unfortunately there just isn't much support for GPS and mapping on the Mac however, so I have an old hand-me-down P2/400 that I use with the GPS'es. I have the general purpose DeLorme Topo USA and Nat'l Geographic Backroads Explorer. For the Magellan I have MapSend Streets and Mapsend Topo which can upload detailed maps to the handheld GPS. For the Garmin I have MapSource Topo in addition to City Navigator database for the entire US that is pre-loaded onto the 2620's microdrive.

Of all these my favorite (so far) is the Garmin MapSource Topo. The StreetPilot 2620 has a 2.5 GB internal drive (mine has a removable compact flash card, although evidently the newer units have non-removable drives) but there is around 500 MB free to upload other maps. There is a menu option on the GPS that lets you choose the mapset you want which I find really handy. The City Navigator maps support full auto-routing so you can just enter a starting point and destination and it will guide you. However the topo maps can't auto-route. Nevertheless, more often than not I work with the topo maps because they have a lot more interesting stuff in the database and are great when you wonder "what's that lake over there?" They really seem to have all the little sand roads and streams on them and the topo contours match the actual elevations measured by the GPS very well. The 2620 is also a real pleasure to use; it has a lot of user-customizable features, the color screen is really bright and readable in full sunlight and the touch-screen interface works very well.

On the trail I use the Magellan with its topo maps. They really aren't as nice as the Garmin maps. They use a less accurate system of mapping contours that doesn't give you a lot of useful feedback out in the pines. I was just recently at Forked River Mountain for example, and you would be hard-pressed to realize that it wasn't just a flat plain from the Magellan map. But the Garmin showed all the contour lines. Things like streams are also generally just skinny lines on the Magellan where the Garmin does a better job of showing the actual shape. The Garmin website has a neat feature where you can display their maps to see the amount of detail. If you go to this link (http://www.garmin.com/cartography) and pick one of the US Topo maps from the drop down menu you can navigate around in it.

Having said all this however, the Meridian is a nice solid unit that manages to keep satellites locked pretty well even under heavy tree cover. I imagine I'd be happier with the Meridian Color, but not enough so to spend for the upgrade. Now unfortunately the portable Garmins with color screens get expensive if you want more than 24 MB of memory (and I would). It's also unfortunate that they don't have memory card slots like the Meridian.

Anyhow, those are a few random thoughts for anyone thinking of getting a GPS or software. I think the StreetPilot 2620 is just terrific and I'm totally hooked on it. The 2610 is pretty much identical except it doesn't have the full US database pre-loaded on a microdrive. But with compact flash cards getting cheaper and cheaper, you can get your own 2GB card and load it from the included City Navigator disks and probably end up about the same. With the 2620 they don't include the PC software since everything is pre-loaded, I had to buy the topo maps separately but I think they're a "must have" if you want to explore the pines.

[njvike]

I agree, Topo USU w/ it's 50' contours is almost useless in most of New Jersey, and it only gives a feel for the land topography when there are large changes in contour. I think the latest street atlas is more useful as it outlines most state & federal boundaries in green and has most roads and the locations of all the abandoned and active RR lines too

The street Atlas is pretty good. I also use it to find abandoned and active RR line as well.

I wish they had something for that would work with the NAV system that I have in my Expedition. It's okay but I wish the company that made it for Ford would offer something in addition.

[bruset]

Ken,

You're still much better off with a handheld unit loaded with street level and/or topo maps. That way you can use it when on foot.

You could get something relatively inexpensive like a Garmin GPSMap 60C, or the 76C which has 115MB of memory - plenty room for maps.

[njvike]

Ken,

You're still much better off with a handheld unit loaded with street level and/or topo maps. That way you can use it when on foot.

You could get something relatively inexpensive like a Garmin GPSMap 60C, or the 76C which has 115MB of memory - plenty room for maps.

I think you're right. I just wish I could've had something that would've utilized the Nav system but I checked with the company this morning and they said No but they are offering enhanced maps. Unfortunately, they sell them by the region and go for $115 for each CD.

What is a good mid-range unit?

Ken

[TeeGate]

I am really a "Mac Person"

Only three people so far that I know of are Mac users here, so welcome to the club. The only way to go.

Guy

[bruset]

[quote=bruset]
What is a good mid-range unit?

Ken

Garmin GPSMap 60C or 76C.

[Boyd]

Thanks TeeGate, but I'm too new around here to make trouble by starting a "my dog is better than your dog" discussion :wink:

Another interesting GPS from Garmin is the Quest http://www.garmin.com/products/quest Have not ever seen one in person, it's a new model, but it looks like a portable version of the 2610 without the touchscreen or compact flash memory.

Regarding "plenty of room for maps" I guess everything is relative. The entire routable City Navigator database for the US and Canada is ~2 gigabytes for example. I uploaded maps for all of NJ, PA, most of NY and parts of a few other states and it took about 88 MB to give you an idea of what to expect.

If you get a Garmin and want maps that show the little back roads, swamps, streams and lakes plus points of interest then you'll also need MapSource Topo US which is extra. Like I said, these maps are not routable like the City Navigator which I think is also extra on the handheld units, isn't it? I have used the City Navigator database in the pines and a lot of the little sand roads aren't on there. Right out of the box the GPS'es usually only feature a "basemap" which has very sparse detail that only shows major roads. Of course even the cheapest most basic ones can plot your position and track so you can navigate back to a starting point though.

If you can afford it take a look at the 2610 and 2620, the removable compact flash cards are a big plus, and the memory capacity is much, much higher (2.5 GB vs 115 MB). It's really disappointing that Garmin doesn't put a data card slot on their portable GPS'es. That would let you easily switch between different maps, like I can do on my Magellan Meridian Gold. But it's a gotcha because I think the Garmin maps are better... guess you just can't get it all from one unit.

NJvike, that's really ridiculous with the factory installed unit and the cost for additional disks. Sorry to hear about that.

[TeeGate]

Thanks TeeGate, but I'm too new around here to make trouble by starting a "my dog is better than your dog" discussion :wink:
.

I don't think that is possible with only three of us :)

Guy

[bobpbx]

The Garmin website has a neat feature where you can display their maps to see the amount of detail. If you go to this link (http://www.garmin.com/cartography) and pick one of the US Topo maps from the drop down menu you can navigate around in it.

Thats pretty neat that the Garmin topo has Aserdaten and Red Oak Grove on it. Still, it does not show the roads with all the curves like a regular Topo map. Are there map programs for GPS units that mimic the detail of the USGS Topo Maps?

[Boyd]

The roads I've driven track very closely to the maps for the most part, but true, it doesn't look quite like the paper maps. And of course due to the limited screen size and resolution, even on the color units the maps don't look the same as the PC screen.

There is another whole approach to GPS'es that use scanned maps and ariel photos. Have not personally delved into these, but I think they are mostly geared to use on PDA's. I've read about various problems with PDA's as GPS'es since using a stylus is awkward, they generally aren't as rugged, the software can crash, and memory/processor speed can be limiting factors. But they certainly have a loyal following.

This website has a lot of info on various GPS topics if you're interested: http://gpsinformation.net. And I also like the forums they have here: http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/default.asp?CAT_ID=2

[bruset]

The Garmin Topo program is a higher scale map than the "standard" 1:24000 USGS topos that we all know and love.

Garmin Mapsource City Select v5 has many of the sand roads on it. For example, it lists the road leading to Nash's Cabin as "Nash's Cabin Rd." While it's not a topo, the amount of detail it has for some of the unpaved roads is commendable.

The Garmin Quest isn't out yet. The only other Garmin unit besides the Streetpilots that take removable memory is the iQue 3600, which quite frankly sucks for use out in the woods. That's why I upgraded to the 76CS.

I have maps for all of NJ, a good chunk of NY, Long Island, and all of Colorado on mine with room to spare.

[njvike]

[quote=bruset]
What is a good mid-range unit?

Ken

Garmin GPSMap 60C or 76C.

Thanks - I think a purchase is in the works. I was going to wait for the holidays but ......

[Boyd]

If there's any interest I could post some screenshots of the Garmin and Magellan maps as displayed on the GPS for a few locations in the pines using both the Topo and City databases.

[bruset]

If there's any interest I could post some screenshots of the Garmin and Magellan maps as displayed on the GPS for a few locations in the pines using both the Topo and City databases.

sounds good to me

[TeeGate]

I just bought a eTrex Legand, Does anybody have a list of way points for the Pine Barren area?

Dave,

What do you think of your Legend?

Guy

[davensj]

Love it. :mrgreen:

[TeeGate]

Love it. :mrgreen:

How do you like the maps that came with it?

Guy

[bruset]

Love it. :mrgreen:

How do you like the maps that came with it?

Guy

It only comes with a basemap.

[davensj]

Love it. :mrgreen:

How do you like the maps that came with it?

Guy

It only comes with a basemap.

Maps that come with it suck, I installed Mapsource maps, 100% better.

[Boyd]

Garmin recently introduced color versions of the Legend http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexLegendc and Vista http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVistac. They look like they would be really nice, although I haven't seen one in person yet. Guy - are these actually shipping yet and do you sell them? The Legend C seems like a good value and is the same as the Vista but without the compass and altimeter.

As far as the maps go, look at the screenshots I posted of Garmin's maps. This is a location near Forked River Mountain as displayed on the 2620 using Garmin's MapSource US Topo map
http://www.njpinebarrens.com/albums/album122/02_G.jpg

This is the same location as displayed with Garmin's MapSource City Navigator map http://www.njpinebarrens.com/albums/album122/01_G.jpg

But if you don't load any mapsource product you would just see a completely blank screen at this location! I think the photos will also give you an idea of how color is a nice feature to have on a GPS. Note that the City Navigator maps are "routeable" while the US Topo maps are not however. That means your GPS can automatically figure out a route and guide you from point A to point B with the City Navigator maps but not the Topo maps. The City maps also have more accurate streets in developed areas, and include all their names. The Topo maps are older and the little roads don't generally have names, but I find them much more useful for exploring the pines. As you can see in the examples above, there is not much detail on the City Navigator maps when you get off the paved roads.

[TeeGate]

I am almost certain I am going to buy the Topo Maps. I have looked over the maps at Garmin's site, compared them, and the Topo shows much more.

For example.

Here is the Red Oak Grove area with the Topo maps.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/topo.jpg


And here is the same area with City Select.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/select.jpg

The City Select shows the names of all of the roads it displays, and the Topo does not, but I do all of my exploring in the pines and the names of the roads to me are unimportant. I just want them to show up. It would be better if Garmin used the actual USGS Topo maps instead of making their own, but I will have to deal with that.

And Ben is who runs this site and sells GPS equiptment. I just help him monitor this site.

Guy

[Boyd]

Oops, sorry, of course... I meant Ben. I think his site is www.pboutdoor.com - right?

[TeeGate]

Oops, sorry, of course... I meant Ben. I think his site is www.pboutdoor.com - right?

That is correct :)

Guy

[Boyd]

It would be better if Garmin used the actual USGS Topo maps instead of making their own, but I will have to deal with that.
I was just browsing the Mapsource products on Garmin's website. They actually do have the 1:24000 USGS maps. But the bad news is that they don't cover NJ :(

Take a look here: http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo24knpeast.jsp Using the map viewer, pick one of those National Parks that you're familiar with and zoom in to about .5 miles. Wow, these are very nice. I'm gonna have to think about this for my next trip to Mt. Desert Island :)

[TeeGate]

It would be better if Garmin used the actual USGS Topo maps instead of making their own, but I will have to deal with that.
I was just browsing the Mapsource products on Garmin's website. They actually do have the 1:24000 USGS maps. But the bad news is that they don't cover NJ :(

Take a look here: http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo24knpeast.jsp Using the map viewer, pick one of those National Parks that you're familiar with and zoom in to about .5 miles. Wow, these are very nice. I'm gonna have to think about this for my next trip to Mt. Desert Island :)

They still do not appear to be the actual USGS maps. They look like they are made by Garmin. At least the National park I was looking at.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/post/map3.jpg

Guy

[Boyd]

Did you try setting "more" detail?

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/albums/album122/map.sized.jpg

This looks pretty nice to me. Now when you say they aren't "actual USGS maps" do you mean they don't look like a scan of the maps? That isn't possible on these GPS'es. They are not capable of displaying images. The maps consist of a series of commands to "connect the dots" and render the different areas with various colors and patterns. This information has been stored in a special file format so it's drawn on the screen as vectors as opposed to displaying an image. Garmin says "Maps are comparable to 1:24,000 scale paper maps provided by the USGS. This is the most detailed topographical data available."

See also http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo24knpeast.jsp#screens for an example of how it looks on the GPS screen.

There are people who use PDA's connected to a GPS with special software that accepts scanned USGS maps and even ariel photographs. Maybe that's more of what you want? But this seems to be in the "do it yourself" category and it only works with PDA's, not dedicated GPS'es.

[TeeGate]

I did not set it at more detail, and that looks much better. I was frustrated on the slow server while trying to view the maps and did not even think of that.

But I still would prefer the USGS maps, since they would be exactly like the paper maps I might have with me.

Guy

[bruset]

They don't contain all of the detail of a USGS 1:24k map.

I haven't ever wished I had the Garmin topos when I was in the woods. I find that working offline with my PC and getting waypoints setup will work just fine for me in the woods.

My old Garmin iQue had software that would allow me to load USGS DRG maps on it, but it was a kludgy solution. I ended up never really using it anyway.

For my money the standard Mapsource City Select works just fine for me.

[Boyd]

Well for one thing, I think maps are printed at a resolution of at least 2400 dots per inch. The eTrex color screen is 176x220 pixels for example, so you're in totally different ballparks there for starters.

Different strokes for different folks. I was personally surpised by just how much enjoyment the topo maps have added to my explorations. There are lots of features that just aren't on the City maps. Have found some lakes, streams and roads I never knew existed before. I am only using the Garmin topo maps in my car now on the StreetPilot 2620 which isn't portable. But I'm getting so hooked I think a Legend C may be somewhere in my future. I'm currently using the Magellan topo maps on a Meridian Gold but they are not as good, and I like the use of color. Certainly none of this stuff is essential, more often than not I just hike out into the woods without the GPS.

Of course you're right about planning in advance on the computer, but being an impulsive type I rarely take the time to do that :)

[TeeGate]

I now have the topo maps in my GPS and it is working well. As I mentioned many of the roads in the pines are not on it so we shall see how impressive I find it to be while using it.

Steve... do you find the maps in your GPS to have most of the roads?

Guy

[BEHR655]

Steve... do you find the maps in your GPS to have most of the roads?

Guy

Yes, most of them. I'm very impressed with it.

[Boyd]

Well if you have the patience to do some experimentation, this program might be a way to get something closer to a real USGS map into your GPS. I never knew such a thing existed until I just read about it on another forum...

http://www.geopainting.com/en/

[TeeGate]

Well if you have the patience to do some experimentation, this program might be a way to get something closer to a real USGS map into your GPS. I never knew such a thing existed until I just read about it on another forum...

http://www.geopainting.com/en/

I had looked over a few of those sites recently, but I have a Mac and I would have to do all of the work in my daughter room on her PC. They don't support Mac.

Guy

[TeeGate]

Steve,

The next time we are together I want to compare our maps and see the differences.

I have not been in the woods with the Topo Maps to see how many roads are there or not, but a quick scan shows many of them not to be. For example the road from the Swamp Monster to the place we ate lunch when Bob B. took us there is not of the map. Is it on yours?


The road that takes you up to the Cranberry Pumping station is not shown.

There is not a road leading to Nash's cabin.

The short final road to Ten Mile Hollow is not on the map.

The road to Unbridge at Lower Forge is not on the map. That is a major one from Quaker Bridge Road.

Guy

[BEHR655]

Steve,

The next time we are together I want to compare our maps and see the differences.

I have not been in the woods with the Topo Maps to see how many roads are there or not, but a quick scan shows many of them not to be. For example the road from the Swamp Monster to the place we ate lunch when Bob B. took us there is not of the map. Is it on yours?


The road that takes you up to the Cranberry Pumping station is not shown.

There is not a road leading to Nash's cabin.

The short final road to Ten Mile Hollow is not on the map.

The road to Unbridge at Lower Forge is not on the map. That is a major one from Quaker Bridge Road.

Guy

Guy,

Mine does not show the Swamp Monster road or the road to the pumping station. It does show Lower Forge Rd off of Quaker Bridge and it shows Nash's Cabin Rd.

Steve

[bruset]

My Mapsource City Select shows Nash's Cabin Rd. as well.