Washington

[BEHR655]

It's amazing what 66 years can do. Is there anything that can be done to preserve these sites?
http://www.njhm.com/mullinerstable.htm

[bruset]

Not a whole lot, actually. Places like Batsto which have "real" historic value (according to the state) are hard pressed for funds as it is. Look at Atsion - the mansion is restored, but surrounded by a fence and boarded up.

A bigger problem are the people who come in and take away stones and brick to build new things with. That's why the cotton mill at Atsion is cemented over, and why Hampton Furnace is mostly gone.

Unfortunately most of these sites will be gone in the next 50 years. It's up to us to document as much as we can while there is still stuff left to see.

[TeeGate]

They would have to have a ranger standing there 24 hours a day, or fence it in like Martha Furnace or Harrisville. And that only stops the law abiding folks. Plus time marches on and mother nature also takes it's toll. If you look at the mortar the next time you are there you will see it is in bad shape. The one article I have on this problem mentions that the public's help is needed in protecting these places, and the help must come from within the people who are doing this.

Guy

[bruset]

I don't see how/why you'd restore something like the Washington stables anyway.

1) It's not close enough to Batsto to be considered an attraction
2) There's not a lot left to restore - 70% of it would be brand new
3) It's technically not historically signifigant. It's a barn.

That's not to diminish the beauty of the place, but those would be reasons why no one would invest money to restore the place.

[JeffD]

This is why areas need to be managed and cared for. Of course it is nice to explore informal places such as Hampton Furnace. But if there are too many places that are abandoned, some people view it as just a dump, a wasteland. Before you know it, the meth labs come.

Some parks have working farms, where the farmers pay to farm the land, and must adhere to an ecologically sound management plan, employing such techniques as coutour farming and crop rotation. The state gets money so it can take better care of its resources. Likewise, logging contracts bring in money, and when sound silvicultural practices are employed, the forest is healthy. When there is someone around, taking care of the place there generally is less vandalism.

[bruset]

Before you know it, the meth labs come


Oh, so you've been to Apple Pie Hill. :)


Some parks have working farms, where the farmers pay to farm the land, and must adhere to an ecologically sound management plan, employing such techniques as coutour farming and crop rotation. The state gets money so it can take better care of its resources. Likewise, logging contracts bring in money, and when sound silvicultural practices are employed, the forest is healthy. When there is someone around, taking care of the place there generally is less vandalism


Behr was alluding to places that aren't really parks, but just spots on a map. I don't think I'd like to see the area around Martha's Furnace logged, just so that Calico can get a historical marker.

The other thing that I wouldn't like about logging near historical sites is that it would be loud, and there would be too many people around. You sort of loose the feeling that you're in another world when you have to look 100' away and see Joe Sixpack and his chainsaw.

Perhaps if there was logging in the Pine Barrens, the state would take X% of the profits of said logging and put them towards forest rejuvination and historical preservation. But the main question is -- where do you log?

Not in my back yard!

[BEHR655]

I don't see how/why you'd restore something like the Washington stables anyway.

1) It's not close enough to Batsto to be considered an attraction
2) There's not a lot left to restore - 70% of it would be brand new
3) It's technically not historically signifigant. It's a barn.

That's not to diminish the beauty of the place, but those would be reasons why no one would invest money to restore the place.

I agree that restoring these sites is not probable. I was thinking more along the lines of preserving them. Looking at the photos of the stables at Washington I would say they have degraded by at least 75% in 66 years. How long until the stable is just anothe cellar hole?

I wonder what percentage is owed to vandalism/thoughtlessness as opposed to nature. Would a historical marker stave off some of the thoughtless destruction? Would re-mortaring or a chemical treatment of the brick and mortar hold off nature?

Steve

[BEHR655]

Would a sign like this help or hinder Washington?
http://www.njpinebarrens.com/albums/album43/aaa.thumb.jpg

I know the wording would need to be changed. :mrgreen:

[JeffD]

" I don't think I'd like to see the area around Martha's Furnace logged, just so that Calico can get a historical marker.

The other thing that I wouldn't like about logging near historical sites is that it would be loud, and there would be too many people around. You sort of loose the feeling that you're in another world when you have to look 100' away and see Joe Sixpack and his chainsaw.

Perhaps if there was logging in the Pine Barrens, the state would take X% of the profits of said logging and put them towards forest rejuvination and historical preservation. But the main question is -- where do you log?

Not in my back yard!"

Ben, have you been up on Apple Pie Hill with Bob. You're starting to sound like him! :) :jaw:

As Fats Domino would sing:
The thrill
up on the hi-ill
On the hill on the hill let's go...

Yes, I was up there recently, and saw lots of trash on the banks just outside the parking lot, and even some graffitti on the wood railings. Nothing like bringing the ghetto to the wilderness!

And I'm not proposing to run chainsaws right outside the historical buildings, especially when people are visiting them. Except when you have to cut down a tree for public safety, the logging would be done on the periphera of the area, and perhaps in the winter. Have you been tiptoeing through the lichens with Renee? :)

I know Behr was talking about places on the map and not a park. My point was that, as you pointed out, it's hard to maintain these places, so it may be impractical to try to preserve many of these areas, although I think a sign like the one in the link above may help. It couldn't hurt.

Joe Sixpack and his chainsaw? :chug: :?

[bruset]

Ben, have you been up on Apple Pie Hill with Bob. You're starting to sound like him!


Actually I've never been there, but a ranger I met once told me that the site is used by a lot of kids to get high.

There are things that you and I agree on, and there are things that Bob & Company and I agree on. My views on the Pine Barrens and land management aren't as black and white as everyone elses seem to be.

There's a difference between preserving an area and exploiting an area. I think logging near historical sites detracts from the beauty of the area. Who decides how large a periperhy is?

[TeeGate]

Ben,

You have not been to Apple Pie Hill?

Guy

[bruset]

Nope!

[JeffD]

I certainly can understand not logging or running some kind of a commercial enterprise or other activities right at an historical site, certainly not within 100 feet of it. Years ago, a school teacher who worked seasonally at Valley Forge National Historical Park complained about people throwing frizbees right in the complex of historical buildings. I agree with him that that detracts from what he is doing and is incompataible with the historical designation. But I also think that as a whole, the park tended to go a little far in allowing for recreational activities. Recreation space is really needed in a park inside a crowded area. The point is that there are different interests and some of them seem to go a little overboard. There needs to be a balance. With some it's nature/environment and with others it's historical stuff.

When there is an old building or other relic of the past, some folks will look at it and enjoy and respect it for its historical significance. Unfortuantely, especially when these places are easliy accessible, but remote (away from anyone who can stop vandalism), other folks would view an old building, etc, as being dilapidated, and in need of demolition, in which they are more than eager to assist.

It's unfortunate that Apple Pie Hill is used as a party place. Maybe the trash that I saw earlier this winter is covered by the growth in the spring or someone cleans it up. Apple Pie Hill is really a thrill on the hill just from the panoramic view of the woods below. It's readily accessible by car but away from civilization, which brings both the decend folks and also those, for whom the best thing I can say is that they are an excellent arguement for retroactive abortion.

[BarryC]

It's also why the Harrisville paper mill ruins are so small, compared to the original size of the mill, and why the Martha Furnace ruins are buried and hidden behind a fence. Actually if no stones or bricks had ever been carried away over the years, imagine what kind of ruins we'd have today!
Barry
Not a whole lot, actually. Places like Batsto which have "real" historic value (according to the state) are hard pressed for funds as it is. Look at Atsion - the mansion is restored, but surrounded by a fence and boarded up.

A bigger problem are the people who come in and take away stones and brick to build new things with. That's why the cotton mill at Atsion is cemented over, and why Hampton Furnace is mostly gone.

Unfortunately most of these sites will be gone in the next 50 years. It's up to us to document as much as we can while there is still stuff left to see.

[bruset]

Barry,

Very true. I would agree that most of the "ruins" are far less impressive now because they're mostly now found scattered in walkways, fireplaces, or other parts of scavengers homes.

Nice to see you again!

[this_is_nascar]

Sorry to bump a really old thread, but where is this "Washington" that's being referenced in this thread? I was on another board earlier this morning and they had pictures of Washington and it looked like a place I'd like to discover.

[TeeGate]

It is right where it says "ruin".

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=39.68227&lon=-74.57588&datum=nad27&u=4&layer=DRG&size=m&s=50

Here it is in my "Then And Now".

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=238&pos=1

Guy

[this_is_nascar]

Thanks.