No camping - Flood? What a joke [Archive]

rblanda

07-15-04, 11:10 AM

I had scheduled a camping trip for today, Thursday July 15th. I have had this day planned for two weeks now, along with the rest of my friends. We got some rain and they close ALL the camp grounds. Our intention was to go to Godfrey's Bridge. they said it is all flooded and you can't even get back there.

Don't test me.

So I hop in the Tahoe and take a look for myself. It's perfectly fine. This is a joke and now we must camp illegally in an unnamed spot. (our secret spot). I think the Superintendent that made this decision (I forget her name) should strap on a pair of balls. Big ones. I can't tell you how pissed I am. This woman's probably never even been camping before.

Godfrey's was never under water and the water was only 12" higher than normal.

Strap a pair on, Lady.

bobpbx

07-15-04, 01:31 PM

Now you see here young man! Its our job to protect you from all the evils in our state forest and you'd better get used to it. We have a sacred duty to do this. Its in our charter and you had better listen to us! :argue:

I agree with you. That is overbearing nonsense to tell you the water is too high. The state refuses to let people be adults. This world is made, no begging, to be explored.

TeeGate

07-15-04, 05:20 PM

They most likely are trying to protect themselves from somone drowning or some other lame excuse.

Guy

BEHR655

07-15-04, 05:51 PM

They most likely are trying to protect themselves from somone drowning or some other lame excuse.

Guy

Exactly! We only have lawyers to blame. :x

NewSchoolPiney

07-15-04, 06:06 PM

Lawyers yes, but we wouldn't have lawyers without the sick cycle of excessive human wants and greed propelling them to action.

I got in trouble for camping illegally in the middle of the woods (Wharton) about a month ago. We have been camping there since high school (about 5 years). It's a great spot that isn't even accessible by a sand road. You have to walk a good 15 minutes through the woods to get there. The rangers woke us up at 9 am all serious acting like we were terrorists or something. We had all of our trash cleaned up from the night before and the fire (which was miniscule) was more than put out. They seemed very "surprised" that we had cleaned up our trash the night before. Voluntarily, we would go out to this general area of Wharton at least once or twice a year to clean up the trash that other thoughtless folk had strewn about. You put in your time, and you can't even get a little bit of unsupervised freedom in nature . . .

It really irks me that because some people can't take care of a fire or take out their trash, we cannot do true wilderness camping. If I ever rise to some position within the Division of Parks and Services, my first goal is to get a small wilderness camping area set up in that huge section of the Batona Trail between Batsto and Washington.

There are adults in this world, but most of them choose to act like children, and therefore like children we shall all be treated.

Peace,

Justin

TeeGate

07-15-04, 08:59 PM

Well said Justin.

Guy

Lorun

07-15-04, 09:27 PM

How they find you out in the wilderness?

Piney1125

07-15-04, 09:32 PM

Aw, don't worry about the superintendent, she just loves exercising her power on everyone she can, just like everybody else in this world. It's a damn shame people don't have priviledges even when they do do good things. :swear:

P.S. And about the fact that most kids act like adults, I disagree with that. It's the <1% that do behave like kids and belong locked up that ruin it all for the greater 99+% of us. It's sad that nobody can be trusted nowadays.

TeeGate

07-15-04, 09:39 PM

I believe this is her.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/~teegate/headranger.jpg

Guy

Piney1125

07-15-04, 09:45 PM

I believe this is her.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/~teegate/headranger.jpg

Guy

That's a woman?

TeeGate

07-15-04, 10:00 PM

Yes it is a woman. I was standing right next to her for a short while, and was watching her closely. It was at the Carranza ceremony two years ago. She was standing in line getting set up to place the "rangers" wreath at the memorial. She poked her hand with the metal portion of the wreath and I was watching her reaction. She actually seemed nice....my first and last impression so far.

Guy

BEHR655

07-15-04, 10:54 PM

I believe this is her.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/~teegate/headranger.jpg

Guy

That's a woman?

Took the words right out of my mouth.

BEHR655

07-15-04, 11:11 PM

Lawyers yes, but we wouldn't have lawyers without the sick cycle of excessive human wants and greed propelling them to action.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? :mrgreen:

In this case I would say you are right, greed came first. However I truely believe that it is the lawyers that perpetuate the greed. It is the way they make their money and the more the plaintif gets the more they get.
What ever happened to people taking responsiblity for their selves? If I slip on a wet floor, should I not have been more careful? How smart do you have to be to know not to put hot coffee between your legs? It's just way out of hand and it is costing us too much. When will the madness stop? </rant>

Steve ~ who doesn't think all lawyers are egg sucking dogs, just most of them.

rblanda

07-16-04, 08:59 AM

I'd like to write a letter about my dissatifaction with her decision. Also, I looked her up, and it only looks like she's superintendent of Bass River State Forest? That's what an article on courier post said.

By the way - we had a great time camping last night at our secret spot. Was a beautiful day with no flooding :)

Her name is Flo McNelly. I'd love an address - which station is she normally at?

Robin Hood

07-16-04, 10:55 AM

You know, they don't close the beaches when the tide comes in, and the purpose for the beaches revolves around the water. I never heard of anyone drown from cooking a hotdog over a campfire. I can't fathom a good reason for shutting down the campgrounds. At least they could have had the decentcy to limit campers to those campgrounds that are no where near water. We all pay for those rangers to watch over the land, not kick us out of it.

-Steve

pinelandpaddler

07-16-04, 01:57 PM

justin,

How much was the illegal camping fine/other fines?

NewSchoolPiney

07-16-04, 08:33 PM

justin,

How much was the illegal camping fine/other fines?

Well, because we had a bottle of wine out there with us, we got two fines apiece. We were told each one was $50, but when we went to pay, Shamong Twp. told us each one was $72. When I told them what the rangers told us, she got all bent out of shape saying,"We always tell them it's not $50." Apparently, the rangers get $50 and the rest goes to whatever township it occurs in.

So to answer your question, $144 apiece. Really, really sad. I refuse to go camping at a giant field where most of the people pull up with giant RV's and bring out all the modern conveniences in an outdoor format (turkey fryers, gas powered blenders, etc).

This hasn't deterred me, as we are just using online GIS web apps to search the aerial photos, topos and dirt roads for secluded places to get away from Big Brother.

Now that I'm working in the GIS field, I have direct access to great GIS data for which to explore with.

If anyone knows any good spots they're willing to share, PM me. I have a good one up my sleeve as well, but it requires a rope swing to get across the Mullica . . . fun times.

Justin

TeeGate

07-16-04, 08:43 PM

Do you drive vehicles into the area's you camp at, or walk?

Guy

rblanda

07-16-04, 09:23 PM

Drove right up.

TeeGate

07-16-04, 09:44 PM

Drove right up.

Sorry Rob...I should have specifid that I was asking that of NewSchoolPiney.

Guy

NewSchoolPiney

07-16-04, 10:24 PM

Do you drive vehicles into the area's you camp at, or walk?

Guy

Guy,

We drive but park where a road ends. Then we walk about 20 - 25min down a trail or two. We've never had rangers actually take the time to walk out to actually investigate something. It was a Saturday morning and you know as well as I that if they can't drive it, they usually don't bother . . .

Lesson learned, park farther away and get up earlier :?

Justin

TeeGate

07-16-04, 10:26 PM

Do you have waders?

Guy

rblanda

07-17-04, 12:52 AM

There is or was a pretty lucrative blueberry farm right close to Lake Oswego. There are red-colored POSTED signs in the area. I have heard rumors that the farm is now run by the state.

Does any of this hold true?

rblanda

07-17-04, 01:46 AM

Just got word that Flo is attending the Batsto Citizen's Committee Meeting on Sunday.

Im card-carrying a member of the BCCI. Im doing the best to clear my schedule, but it doesnt look promising. Darn!

ZZ3GMC

07-17-04, 02:06 AM

I believe her name is Carmella. Ive run into her a few times on my bike and she has always been nice.

TeeGate

07-17-04, 08:01 AM

I believe her name is Carmella. Ive run into her a few times on my bike and she has always been nice.

So I guess my first impression was correct. Thanks.

Guy

rblanda

07-17-04, 08:45 AM

This woman's name is Flo McNelly. She's the new ACTING superintendent of Wharton State Forest.

NewSchoolPiney

07-17-04, 02:09 PM

Do you have waders?

Guy

Guy,

No, I don't yet. But usually we go with about 4 to 8 people, and most of them aren't willing to use waders just to go camping one night. I like the rope swing we have, it's more Swiss Family Robinson-esque. 8)

Justin

TeeGate

07-17-04, 02:15 PM

[quote=TeeGate]Do you have waders?

Guy

Guy,

No, I don't yet. But usually we go with about 4 to 8 people, and most of them aren't willing to use waders just to go camping one night. I like the rope swing we have, it's more Swiss Family Robinson-esque. 8)

Justin[/quote

I was asking because I have a remote place you could go, but without waders you can't get there.

Guy

bobpbx

07-17-04, 11:18 PM

I believe her name is Carmella. Ive run into her a few times on my bike and she has always been nice.

She's nice even after running into her with your bike? :shock:

She must be tough as nails........... :wink:

grendel

04-06-06, 10:07 PM

Piney Boy

04-07-06, 08:37 AM

Amen to a wilderness campsite. I do a lot of day hiking in the Pines, but our lack of backpacking overnight sites is astounding. Their is no reason it should have to be this way. Part of the problem with trash and fire trouble comes from car access to sites. These folks drive in and bring everything under the sun with them. Many's the time I have seen this and the aftermath they leave behind. Bottles of every sort and every kind of trash imaginable. Thiis says nothing for the drunken parties that accompany them. Don't get me wrong, I like to pack in a little drink or two to unwind after a long day, but drunken ugly bashes should not be acceptable at remote campsites. If sites were more remote, and not ones you could drive up within a mile to, this problem would disappear. I have yet to meet a backpacker that does not take leave no trace to heart. Get rid of the cars and you get rid of the trash.
Lets all think about writing up some kind of petition, hell I'd be happy to do the trail work to this campsite. Anybody else agree?

virginiapiney

04-07-06, 10:05 AM

I'm in

grendel

04-07-06, 10:18 AM

every state I have camped in allows you to camp where you will,why is Jersey the exception. Every other state also limits car access, it seems Jersey has it backwards.........how unusual.

Piney Boy

04-07-06, 11:04 AM

Well fella's if your game lets all right up what we think than go over it as a group. I'm sure support can be not only gained from here, but also the Batona Hiking club, my band of M.A.Y.P hikers, and a load of other orgs as well.
This will take a degree of commitment from us, but I'm willing to put in some quality time with paper and footwork as well as trail duties if you guys are. I'm gonna start today and devote some of my lunch time to see what comes out. I think this could be exciting opportunity for all of us who love the Pines and want to use them in a cleaner, safer, more fun environment!

Piney Boy

04-07-06, 03:12 PM

Some thoughts;
were will this site be?
Distance?
who do we want to contact to aid in this endeavor?

BEHR655

04-07-06, 06:03 PM

Get rid of the cars and you get rid of the trash.

True but I think the way the State thinks is, no road, no access in case of fire. Also, they won't be willing to hike long distances to bust you for beer.

Steve

tom m

04-07-06, 06:53 PM

My brother and i recentely hiked the wilderness trail from atsion towards quaker bridge ,and what we found was a prime example of why jersey will never allow wilderness camping where ever you want ,we saw trash and debris and hanging on an other wise beautifull mountain laurel bush was human waste and the used toilet paper so carefully placed for all to see .Now if people do that in plain sight what would it look like if these people were allowed to camp where ever they wanted. My brother and i try and spend as much time out there as is possible and we to wish we could camp where ever we wanted ,but seeing all that i can understand why it will never happen in jersey:(

bobpbx

04-07-06, 07:05 PM

Some thoughts;
were will this site be?
Distance?
who do we want to contact to aid in this endeavor?

I'll sign it:

Where: Wharton, Lebanon, and Double Trouble.
Distance: At least one mile from a paved road and 500 yards from any sand road.
Contact: Try the NJ web site, probably a division of Parks and Forestry Head.

grendel

04-07-06, 08:34 PM

[QUOTE=tom m]My brother and i recentely hiked the wilderness trail from atsion towards quaker bridge ,and what we found was a prime example of why jersey will never allow wilderness camping where ever you want ,we saw trash and debris and hanging on an other wise beautifull mountain laurel bush was human waste and the used toilet paper so carefully placed for all to see .Now if people do that in plain sight what would it look like if these people were allowed to camp where ever they wanted. My brother and i try and spend as much time out there as is possible and we to wish we could camp where ever we wanted ,but seeing all that i can understand why it will never happen in jersey:([/QUO

How come there is so much of that in Jersey and so little in other states?? Because people who do that are mostly not hikers.Limit car access,limit litter and other nonsense.

grendel

04-07-06, 08:34 PM

True but I think the way the State thinks is, no road, no access in case of fire. Also, they won't be willing to hike long distances to bust you for beer.

Steve Gates. Wonderful invention, they are used to limit vehicle access. On your second point you are right on the money.What it really boils down to is your Government does not trust it's citizens.

grendel

04-10-06, 08:49 AM

I would also like to see some of the roads closed. Not all but some.

NewSchoolPiney

04-11-06, 12:25 PM

Some thoughts;
were will this site be?
Distance?
who do we want to contact to aid in this endeavor?

Man, I never thought my thread would be resurrected so long after the initial post. Regardless, I think the restrictions need to be even more strict for this campsite. The problem with the Mullica River campsite is that you can drive pretty much until about 500 yards from the site where the sign posts 'No Motor Vehicles'. This is right off Quaker Bridge Rd. There has to be no way that a car could get less than a mile from this new wilderness camping spot we are 'proposing' via sand or paved roads.

Let me take a look at some topo's and see what may work in my mind (mind you, I'm no expert). I was thinking around the Batsto area as there's not as many roads (think road to Hawkins Bridge campsite -> Friendship). That way, a nice 4 mile hike along singletrack (no sand road interaction -> it's a curse of all PB State trails), would discourage anyone who can simply drive along a sand road and look for the brown/color sticks that mark a hiking trail.

I think tonight or tomorrow I'm heading to Goshen to do some camping cause all this posting is getting me antsy for some good times this spring/summer in the Pines. This weather is going to be superb the next 2 to 3 days.

Peace,

J.

NewSchoolPiney

04-11-06, 12:35 PM

True but I think the way the State thinks is, no road, no access in case of fire. Also, they won't be willing to hike long distances to bust you for beer.

Steve

This is precisely the issue that I believe won't be able to be overcome. The immediate argument will be 'If there is a fire, we need to get back there with our vehicles.'

Secondary argument, 'If there are people camping there, registered or not, we have to play Mommy and be able to drive back there in our gas powered vehicles and make sure they're not doing anything wrong. Walking anywhere further than 500 yards is out of the question.'

It's the balance of trust vs. the number of inconsiderate folks in this state that has yet to be reached. And due to the bad press and lingering feelings that these incidents (trash dumping, not putting out fires, leaving huge traces of human contact with nature), this makes the generalization swing towards not trusting anyone and having to make things so strict and accessible, that no one can enjoy nature responsibly the way it's supposed to be enjoyed: in peace and solitude with good friends and good times.

Another 2 pence from me, I should get back to making websites.

Peace,

J.

Piney Boy

04-11-06, 03:00 PM

I have been mulling possible locations over and have come up with the following:

Somewhere between Washington Pike, in Wharton, and 563 or Bulltown Road. This spot of land offers a little scenic swamp and water views and is removed from major roads or public land holdings.

Or somewhere off 563 closer to the West Branch of the Wading River. Lots of scenic landscape with no major land holdings.

Perhaps we could post a day out bush whacking trip in the coming weeks to spot out possible locations. What do you think gang?

BEHR655

04-11-06, 05:34 PM

Or somewhere off 563 closer to the West Branch of the Wading River. Lots of scenic landscape with no major land holdings.

Lee Brothers own a great deal of property on the west side of the river and Haines owns even more on the east side. I believe you have to get to Eagle Rd. before you are on State property as far as Lee's property is concerned. If you look at a topo and see Stormy Hill behind Hog Wallow Bogs that is still Haines property. I don't think it extends to the other side of the river though.

Steve

Piney Boy

04-12-06, 08:38 AM

Lee Brothers own a great deal of property on the west side of the river and Haines owns even more on the east side. I believe you have to get to Eagle Rd. before you are on State property as far as Lee's property is concerned. If you look at a topo and see Stormy Hill behind Hog Wallow Bogs that is still Haines property. I don't think it extends to the other side of the river though.

Steve

Geez, I didn't realize that high an amount was private holdings. Perhaps the opposite side of the river then.

piker56

04-14-06, 07:49 AM

[quote=grendelHow come there is so much of that in Jersey (litter) and so little in other states?? Because people who do that are mostly not hikers.Limit car access,limit litter and other nonsense.[/quote]

I wish this was entirely true, but the "stuff" I've seen (mentioned by Tom M) was not near enough to a road to have been drivers, it was from from hikers. Hikers who did't bury their own "waste" and thought it was funny. I don't want to be negative. I wish Jersey had more back country camping. I would do my share to try and bring it about. But it would definitely be an uphill battle.