Bears in the Pines

[MontanaKayaker]

I heard that the State has transplanted some black bears from the NW part of the state down in the pines. Any truth to this? Anyone see a black bear?

Jim

[bach2yoga]

Heard on the news this morning that several sheep down here in Hopewell Township (near Bridgeton, headed toward Salem County) were found mauled to death. State authorities suspect a bear, and investigation is underway.

Interestingly, when I talked with Russ Juelg on Saturday he seemed to think it entirely possible that there is a bear at Double Trouble. Seems that the nearest positive ID of bear is only 30 miles north of that, which is well within the mileage of a bear's territory.

'Course, he's inclined to think we may have cougars too. Who knows??!!

Renee

[JeffD]

I posted this Q & A about the black bear from the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife before, but I'll put it in this context. Scroll down about 1/4 way and find the question HOW MANY BEARS ARE THERE IN NEW JERSEY AND WHERE TO THEY LIVE? It appears they have been migrating south and east in New Jersey, so it is possible that a black bear may have visited or maybe lives in Double Trouble State Park. http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearq&a.htm

[bach2yoga]

HUNDREDS TURN OUT FOR CONTENTIOUS BEAR HUNT HEARING

Date: 030524
From: http://www.nj.com/newsflash/jersey/

Associated Press, 5/23/03

Trenton - Hundreds of people armed with statistics and opinions
squared off during a heated public hearing on the state's plan to hold
a bear hunt this winter, even though most said they believe that
officials have already decided to proceed with the hunt.

The hearing was held Thursday night by the state Fish & Wildlife Game
Council, which in March approved a six-day hunt from Dec. 8-13 to
control New Jersey's black bear population. If it goes forward, the
hunt would be the first in the Garden State since 1971.

While the hunt appears to have the support of a majority of the
council, it will continue to accept written comments on the plan until
late summer. A decision on whether to hold the hunt is also expected
around that time.

Proponents stressed Thursday that the hunt is needed to thin the
state's growing bear population, which they say poses a public safety
threat. While there were fewer than 100 black bears in New Jersey
1970s, state biologists now estimate the bear population at 3,200.

"There is a very real and extremely dangerous black bear
overpopulation problem in New Jersey and it needs to be addressed
immediately," said Carol Katona, a legislative agent for the
Association of NJ Rifle and Pistol Clubs.

Supporters also noted that bear sightings have increased in recent
years, as have reports of bears wandering into residential
neighborhoods looking for food and killing farmers' livestock.

However, animal rights activists and other critics - many clutching
teddy bears - said New Jerseyans need to coexist with animals instead
of needlessly killing them. They also questioned the state's
population figures and the effectiveness of a hunt as a management
method.

"I think we ought to try living with nature instead of trying to
destroy it," said Steve Heuer, 48, of Hackettstown.

[bruset]

Very stupid. Leave the bears alone, or introduce a predator that can keep them in check.

[JeffD]

Right on, Ben. Yeah, maybe we should sit down at a campfire with them over smores. Hug that Teddy Bear. Oh, I feel a parody coming on.

I wanna be
Your Teddy Bear
Rap your hands around my neck
And take me everywhere
I wanna be
Your Teddy Bear

I don't want animal rights folks cryin'
Cause cryin's just too much
I don't want to be a hunter
'cause hunter's
are too much...

You know, we are part of the ecosystem. Each member has a different way of interacting. Bears have claws, etc. If they were smart enough to make a gun, they'd be out hunting us.

While were at it, it's also a good idea to hunt deer to keep the population in check, and cut down on roadkilss, lyme disease, etc. But hey, according to Heuer, we should just be living with nature. Disease and mamings are part of nature, so I guess we're supposed to just live with it. In the words of Rodney King, WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.

[bobpbx]

.... introduce a predator that can keep them in check.

That would have to be some predator Ben. Now that would scare even me out of the woods.

[bruset]

Right on, Ben. Yeah, maybe we should sit down at a campfire with them over smores. Hug that Teddy Bear. Oh, I feel a parody coming on.


Why not? I mean, camping areas out west have bear populations nearby. Just hang your food up high.


That would have to be some predator Ben. Now that would scare even me out of the woods.


Lions! The one at Popcorn Park Zoo was humbling to hear when he roared. The ground literally shook. Now I know why they are called the king of the jungle.

[bobpbx]

[quote]Lions! The one at Popcorn Park Zoo was humbling to hear when he roared. The ground literally shook. Now I know why they are called the king of the jungle.

That reminds me. There is a stream behind the zoo that I was exploring about 8 years ago. I was looking for orchids. It is about 1/4 mile as the crow flies from the zoo. All of a sudden the lions started making this rapid fire huffing noise, kind of like a roar while clearing their throat at the same time. I straightened up and peered into the woods (it was dusk and getting dark fast). I had no idea what it was, it was the first time I encountered it. My heart was pounding a little bit. When I did finally realize it had to be the lions from the zoo, I started to question to myself whether they had broken loose. It was freaky out there alone that night, believe me.

I live almost 1.5 miles from the zoo as the crow flies. You can actually hear them roaring from my house when the wind is right.

Please Ben, don't suggest they release the lions to go after bears. But that would still be a hell of a fight. I don't think a full-grown black bear goes down easily.

[bach2yoga]

I guess in all fairness Ben ya have to admit we're the most dangerous natural enemy they have. But I don't agree with the bear hunt. Maybe I'd feel different if I lived in an area with bears, but I highly doubt it.
Maybe the bears would help keep down the brown goat population (aka deer) a bit (this coming from someone who has spent the majority of her life as a vegetarian!). They ravaged the heck out of some of the swamp pink populations we explored. Flower heads dropped everywhere, leaves and stalks gone, areas decimated. Deer herbivory can be a real problem.
Renee

[bruset]

If Bears were as widespread as deer I would say that they should be hunted. I'd prefer to see them in their natural habitat, which is not the Pine Barrens. Let them stay up in North Jersey.

I was only joking about the lions, Bob. :) I wish I lived down in the Lacey/Bamber area. It's so quiet down there. We were going to try to hit the Forked River Mountain after the zoo, but Laura gets carsick too easy, and the bumpy roads don't agree with her.

[JeffD]

Right on, Ben. Yeah, maybe we should sit down at a campfire with them over smores. Hug that Teddy Bear. Oh, I feel a parody coming on.


Why not? I mean, camping areas out west have bear populations nearby. Just hang your food up high.


That would have to be some predator Ben. Now that would scare even me out of the woods.


Lions! The one at Popcorn Park Zoo was humbling to hear when he roared. The ground literally shook. Now I know why they are called the king of the jungle.


I know about hanging your food high to keep the bears from getting it, Ben. Many years ago when I backpacked in Pennsylvania's Black Forest in northcentral PA a bear got into my stuff. I had hung my food above the ground but evidently not high enough. I didn't hear the bear when I was sleeping in my pup tent -- maybe the sound of the nearby rushing stream drowned it out -- but the next morning I found teeth marks in my can of, I think it was either spaghetti or ravioli. They didn't quite go all the way through, so I ate the food anyway. I think it was a black bear.

When there's an overpopulation of anything there is a problem. Of course, some critters are more bothersome than others. Anyway, the park where I worked years ago had a deer overpopulation. At one point, state scientists believe the deer population was five times above the carrying capacity! The area around the park was rapdily developed in a short time, and deer would funnel into the park, but of course would also visit developments where they could eat some of the plants that people grew. A deer once came right into a house, crashing through a large window. There were alot of car versus deer accidents, which wasn't as good a match as would be a lion versus a deer. Lyme Disease and deforestation was also a concern. So the park had a yearly deer hunt each winter and closed the park the days of the hunt.

I think that introducing hunters is the best preditor. This would be safer and would prevent other problems than letting lions loose or introducing wolves into the Pine Barrens. (I know you were kidding, Ben).

[manumuskin]

bruset,
I do believe that the pine barrens is native habitat to bear only they were exterminated here over 100 years ago when the barrens were actually less wild then they are now due to all the charcoaling,iron mining and so forth going on at the time of the extermination.I think they"d do real good around here now if people didn"t freak out and go on a killing spree and wipe em out again.
Al

[BarryC]

I believe there was talk of moving some down, but I don't think it has been done yet. But I also believe I read somewhere in a news article that bears have been sighted in 17 counties.
Also, on another note, I do believe they are mostly plant eaters and they wouldn't maul farm animals, but I may be wrong on that. I just glanced through the string below, but need to read the whole thing before I post more.
I've also heard that there is at least one bear in the Tuckahoe/Ætna/Head-of-the-River area. I think Renee told me that a naturalist told her that.
Barry
I heard that the State has transplanted some black bears from the NW part of the state down in the pines. Any truth to this? Anyone see a black bear?

Jim

[BorderWalker]

Hmm, for all it's worth, I spotted a number of what I am pretty sure were bear tracks in the Dover Forge area back in March or April. It was along the fence line on the southeastern edge of the Arthur Newman Airpark. [Edit: Make that the Robert J. Miller Airpark, getting my names screwed up.] The detail wasn't all that good given that the prints were in the sand, but with a diameter of about 5 inches, I think that rules out a feral dog or coyote. Plus, the claw imprints seemed too far apart to be canine. I'm not an expert on the matter, so I can't say for certain what it was or wasn't. All I decided was to call it a day. :mrgreen:

--Tom

[bobpbx]

on the southeastern edge of the Arthur Newman Airpark.

Tom, do you mean the Robert J. Miller airpark on route 530? If not, where is the Newman Air Park?

bob

[BorderWalker]

Whoops, sorry about that. I was thinking of the Arthur Newman Industrial Park that's also on 530. Yes, that should have been the Robert J. Miller Airpark. Thanks for pointing that out, Bob.

--Tom

[foofoo]

from what i was told they tried this in the 70's and the bears wouldnt take. they need a different type habitat to survive. plenty of coyotes in the pines though. soon to be a problem im sure. i listen to the fish ang game channels and it seems bears love to eat the family pets as well as livestock. the land can only carry so many and we are looking stupid by not keeping the whole thing under control. yes i mean limited hunting! i hated to see all those geese gased. would have been better served on someones table.

[bach2yoga]

Hmm, for all it's worth, I spotted a number of what I am pretty sure were bear tracks in the Dover Forge area back in March or April. It was along the fence line on the southeastern edge of the Arthur Newman Airpark. [Edit: Make that the Robert J. Miller Airpark, getting my names screwed up.] The detail wasn't all that good given that the prints were in the sand, but with a diameter of about 5 inches, I think that rules out a feral dog or coyote. Plus, the claw imprints seemed too far apart to be canine. I'm not an expert on the matter, so I can't say for certain what it was or wasn't. All I decided was to call it a day. :mrgreen:

--Tom

Well, that's just a stone's throw from Double Trouble, where I would stake my last dollar on the tracks I saw last year around this time being bear.

BTW, got to see my first timber rattlesnake Monday! :) He was a beauty, if terrifying.

Fortunately for me, it was being tracked and had made it's way into a research box, and was let back out after we had seen him. Can't say I would want to see him any closer than that, though. Did get a few pics of him.

Renee

[BorderWalker]

BTW, got to see my first timber rattlesnake Monday! :) He was a beauty, if terrifying.

Fortunately for me, it was being tracked and had made it's way into a research box, and was let back out after we had seen him. Can't say I would want to see him any closer than that, though. Did get a few pics of him.

Renee

Renee, do you have the pictures of that rattler posted by any chance? I'm curious about it's color/pattern. Supposedly eastern timber rattlers are a little less aggressive than diamondbacks. From what I've read, they prefer to flee or try to hide themselves--which can make them more dangerous to someone who doesn't notice one while walking.

--Tom

[manumuskin]

I don"t know about that docile stuff.I"ve caught four rattlers in my life.one in WV,two in TENN and one right near batsto and the one in WV was docile and so was one in Tenn but the other one and the one in the barrens were all piss n vinegar.they wanted a fight and I gave em one.I won all four rounds actually.no bites andstill have all my digits:-)
Al

[bach2yoga]

I have pics, but they aren't developed yet. This rattler was the yellow phase, a mature male. Extremely camoflauged as he slithered away, very difficult to see him among the grasses. Would be easy to step on...
I will certainly post them when they are developed.
He seemed a bit agitated in the box, but who could blame him?

[BorderWalker]

I don"t know about that docile stuff.I"ve caught four rattlers in my life.one in WV,two in TENN and one right near batsto and the one in WV was docile and so was one in Tenn but the other one and the one in the barrens were all piss n vinegar.they wanted a fight and I gave em one.I won all four rounds actually.no bites andstill have all my digits:-)
Al

Well, maybe relatively docile. :) It also depends on the individual, I guess. As a kid I used to collect anything I came across. At one point I had four painted turtles from a fishing trip. Three of them were perfectly good natured, but there one was who just didn't like anyone. He'd snap and hiss if you so much as put your hand near him. Angry little man, I still have a few scars curtesy of that one.

But, tangling with rattlers? How'd you end up doing that? (Four times no less.) One way or the other, good reflexes on your part!

--Tom

[manumuskin]

I"ve loved snakes since I was a little kid.I carry a snake stick in my truck at all times though I admit I"ve never used it yet.just got it a year ago.every rattler I"ve caught has been by tailing like steve erwin does and pinning their heads with a stick.Any snakes that aren"t venemous I jusy snatch em wherever I happen to grab em.I"ve been bitten literally hundreds of times by your everyday non venemous kinds but never yet by a rattler.never had the pleasure of catching a copperhead yet.Their are roughly 22 kinds of snakes in southern nj and the only ones I haven"t caught are.scarlet snake,eastern milksnake,coastal plains milksnake and corn snake.
I"ve never been turtle bit.They look like they have a nasty bite.I"ve caught a lotta snappers too but never bit.
Al

[BEHR655]

With friends today, in the Delaware Water Gap area, a black bear bounded out in front of our truck. This was on a back road with a few houses. It looked like it had come out of someone's backyard. I'd say this fella would have been about 5' tall on it's hind legs. There were 2 cameras and a camcorder at hand but no one got a shot.

[bruset]

I saw a bear today -- at Popcorn Park Zoo. :)

[bach2yoga]

See, there are bears in the Pine Barrens!
My kids love that place!
Renee

[KARL]

this old piney believes that black bears cannot survive well in the pine barrens....they need a lot of berries and other types of plants that dont grow down here....im not surprised that they end up eating sheep....too bad, id love to see them take root down here.........knew a fella over at mt misery many years ago who got bitten by a timber rattler....didnt die but he admittted he wished he had for several months........the poison acted on his nervous system,and left him paralyzed on his left side for several months......so dont fool with em.......anybody see any of the black racers i mentioned.....the real big ones

[kingofthepines]

With friends today, in the Delaware Water Gap area, a black bear bounded out in front of our truck. This was on a back road with a few houses. It looked like it had come out of someone's backyard. I'd say this fella would have been about 5' tall on it's hind legs. There were 2 cameras and a camcorder at hand but no one got a shot.
I was in the same area around the same time as you and managed to snap off a few pictures of the bears who raided every campsite in the primitive section of Camp Taylor. My first encounter with the momma bear was hair raising. She looking in the tent and me looking out. Nose to nose at about six inches.
The pics are dark because it was around 6am. and the flash on the digital only carried so far. The pics of the cubs I treed was only slightly better as I dared get a bit closer.
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kingofthepines/bigmomma.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kingofthepines/bearcubs.jpg
Hard to see but there are three cubs racing up the left side of the tree.

[njvike]

But I don't agree with the bear hunt. Maybe I'd feel different if I lived in an area with bears, but I highly doubt it.
Renee

The problem with bears is two-fold. You have idiots (my neighbors) that continue to leave out bird feeders and garbage at night and even one dolt who decided to feed it by throwing it a bagel or donut. When the bear wanted more he took a swipe at the kids and the bear had to be put down because of this moron.

We in Sussex county have seen it all. We had a bear in our neighborhood take up residence and decided to go through the everyone's garbage one night. Since the bear wasn't a threat, the police shot it with a rubber bullet and we haven't seen the bear since. I think that was the right thing to do here.

Now, if you ask some of the people whose homes were ransacked you're going to get a completely different view. These folks have had first-hand experience and are completely terrified since some of the bears have no fear.

I believe if we just use common sense and didn't leave garbage out at night or leave bird feeders out, we will do pretty good. Unfortunately, there's going to be a time, if we aren't there already, when the bear population is going to get too far out of control.

If you or anyone else is really interested in getting some opinions from some of my neighbors, just start a thread at http://nj.com/forums/sussex/

I still hope there is an alternative.

[foofoo]

bear steaks are good eats! as long as they keep building those billion dollar developements and tearing down the woods we must all pay. i will be doing my part by hunting them this year. i had to take a three hour class at rutgers to do so. the biologist say that new jersey can carry about 600 bears but have an estimated poulation of 2 to 3 thousand. i spoke to people up north near the waywayanda state park and it seems the bears are eating pets and llamas, swating at windows of houses and trying to get through doors for food. we made this mess so if by having a hunting season puts some fear back into the bears maybe they will not confront humans as much. step on a bug or chop down a weed all life is sacred. when a critter is fuzzy with fur and is cute all the sudden its not right. the only difference between a hunter and a non hunter is the hunter chooses to kill what it eats thats it! :)

[bach2yoga]

bear steaks are good eats! as long as they keep building those billion dollar developements and tearing down the woods we must all pay. i will be doing my part by hunting them this year. i had to take a three hour class at rutgers to do so. the biologist say that new jersey can carry about 600 bears but have an estimated poulation of 2 to 3 thousand. i spoke to people up north near the waywayanda state park and it seems the bears are eating pets and llamas, swating at windows of houses and trying to get through doors for food. we made this mess so if by having a hunting season puts some fear back into the bears maybe they will not confront humans as much. step on a bug or chop down a weed all life is sacred. when a critter is fuzzy with fur and is cute all the sudden its not right. the only difference between a hunter and a non hunter is the hunter chooses to kill what it eats thats it! :)

We need to keep the deer population down too, especially in the northern counties....the deer herbivory in some northern communities decimates T&E populations. There is a proposal on the desk of the Division of Taxation right now to impute the value of $50 onto the head of a doe to help farmers who have woodland management plans in order to get farmland assessment. Rather than logging $500 worth of trees to qualify for the assessment, the value of the does tagged would qualify them for farmland assessment.

Renee