Jersey Devil-real or unreal? [Archive]

BEHR655

03-02-05, 11:04 PM

I do not think it's real. There is nothing I have ever read about it that for half a second made me think it is real. It would be pretty cool if it were but it ain't.
I do believe that the basis for the myth could be real. That Mrs.Leeds had a malformed child. In those days it would not be unusual for children born like that to be hidden away. Rumors about the child would form and a myth is born.

I don't believe that Big Foot exists either. If a race such as that existed there would be proof positive after all the thousands of years of supposed existance. Someone would have one mounted and hanging over the fireplace.

Now Jackalopes......that's a different story.

bobpbx

03-02-05, 11:39 PM

Now Jackalopes......that's a different story.

Ha! You are a hoot Steve!

From Jersey Genesis by Beck:....."The Leeds Devil..like a giant bird of prey, is seen to hover above some silent, star-bespangled pond within the umbrous recess of a cedar swamp"

crazyoz

03-03-05, 01:36 AM

I belive in the ol Jersey Devil. I even may have had an incounter. All I know is the Pines of Jersey are a stange place. Beware the Glowing Red Eyes in the thicket.

Stu

03-03-05, 01:50 AM

I think it's real; however, I don't follow that Leeds junk. I think it's most likely an unknown species.

kingofthepines

03-03-05, 06:47 AM

Definately real. He hangs out with Santa and the easter bunny.

Gerania

03-03-05, 07:12 AM

Real. I saw him out at Whitesbog at the blueberry festival.

Gillian

bruset

03-03-05, 09:15 AM

Show us on the doll where the Jersey Devil touched you.

Gerania

03-03-05, 02:31 PM

Show us on the doll where the Jersey Devil touched you.

Now that was good! Actually, a long time ago when I was 16 and cute, Winnie-the-Pooh followed me around Sears for a while one day. At one point he tried to back me into a corner.

Gillian <--- Lookin' for love in all the wrong places.

Ariadne

03-03-05, 05:04 PM

Jersey Devil, not real.

Bog Monkey, very, very real.

gagliarchives

03-03-05, 05:50 PM

I don't...I think its all nonsense. And I am pretty open minded.

TeeGate

03-03-05, 06:25 PM

I can't belive that the yes votes are winning. Get a grip!

Guy

BEHR655

03-03-05, 06:32 PM

I think it's real; however, I don't follow that Leeds junk. I think it's most likely an unknown species.

Where does it live? Why have no hunters found and killed one? Why are there no photographs? Why have no remains been found? Who put those 8 great tomatos in that itty bitty jar? The questions can go on and on.

Steve

Stu

03-03-05, 06:59 PM

Where does it live?
The Pine Barrens, evidently.

Why have no hunters found and killed one?
From my experience, most hunters go out in the early morning or day. Judging by many of the sightings, whatever it is is nocturnal. Plus that'd just be downright mean to shoot one. :(

Why are there no photographs?
Got me on that one, seeing how more & more people are bringing cameras into the Pines. Bad timing, maybe? I dunno. For the most part, animals do their best to get away from people.

Why have no remains been found?
Same reason remains of other animals, like bears, are seldom found. Excluding getting killed by something else, animals, for the most part, know if they're going to die and go to their dens or somewhere else where they won't disturbed.
It could survive in very small numbers too.

I think there have been too many sightings over the years to just dismiss it. Once again, I don't believe that 13th child crap, but I do think it's possible there are animals out there we simply don't know about. My doubt has been growing over the past year or so, seeing how I've spent a good amount of time in the Pines, even at night, and have never seen or heard anything abnormal. But just as you can't prove it, you can't disprove it.

BEHR655

03-03-05, 07:31 PM

I don't believe that 13th child crap, but I do think it's possible there are animals out there we simply don't know about.

Once again, I don't believe that 13th child crap, but I do think it's possible there are animals out there we simply don't know about.

Well the "13th Child" is Hollywood of course but the story about Mrs. Leeds does make sense as to the beginning of the myth. And I must stress the word myth. As I stated before, I believe that if Mrs. Leeds had a hideously deformed child it would not be unusual in that day and age to hide the child from prying eyes. This was in a time when most people still believed in demons and witches and such. I mean these people actually believed that insects and vermin came from dead bodies and that when you sneezed demons where expelled (hence, God bless you). Not a very enlightened bunch.
Rumors about the child would be passed down the line and you know what happens with rumors. The rumor gets embellished with each telling until we have a huge bat winged, horse headed, upright walking monster.
In this day and age, with the Pine Barrens much more populated than you may think, I find it hard to believe that, if it exists, that hard (or even soft) evidence of it's existence would not have been found.

Steve

Stu

03-03-05, 08:21 PM

This was in a time when most people still believed in demons and witches and such. I mean these people actually believed that insects and vermin came from dead bodies and that when you sneezed demons where expelled (hence, God bless you). Not a very enlightened bunch.
Yes, and sadly, they run the country.

BEHR655

03-03-05, 08:42 PM

Yes, and sadly, they run the country.

Huh???

bobpbx

03-03-05, 10:46 PM

Yes, and sadly, they run the country.

I think stu means those who voted in the last election and were successful, no?

bruset

03-03-05, 11:13 PM

I believe that there are a lot of things in this world that are beyond our ability to understand or rationalize.

I don't, however, think the Jersey Devil was ever real, nor is he an animal that has not been cataloged.

Scientifically, there is no way that an animal like the JD could escape detection in such a small environment as the Pine Barrens. Nobody has ever found a skeleton of one - nobody has ever seen one flying around, etc.

It turned out that many of the 1909 sightings were pure fiction.

What likely happened was that back in colonial times either somebody from outside the Pines wanted to create a story that would make the area look bad (just like the Kalikkak paper), OR it was a story created and passed on by Pineys that wanted to keep outsiders away.

bobpbx

03-03-05, 11:38 PM

I find it strange that those who voted no actually voted or spoke up to voice their dissent. And to then feel they had to explain why they voted no is baffling to me. Of course its no :rolleyes: .

But I voted yes because its fun to pretend.

bruset

03-04-05, 12:30 AM

i didn't vote.

woodjin

03-04-05, 01:59 AM

I'm with you Bob it is fun to pretend (i didn't vote). I've always found the Jersey or Leeds Devil myth very interesting. I think one of the greatest mysteries of the pine barrens for me is the exact origin of the legend. I do tend to lead toward the deformed child theory. Most of the other theories just don't seem to hold water. The other possibility is that it was just made up for the sheer amusement of it, but it seems unlikely it would have grown as it did. Maybe within a small community (Leeds point perhaps) it was used within the community as a means of controlling/scaring childern in order to keep them out of the woods. Word spread to town to town and so on.

Whatever it is, it is a very unique myth. It was not a natural oddity like bigfoot or Lock Ness, but not a ghost story either. Something inbetween. As for all the sightings, well, there are about a million explainations for that. From pranks and lies, to mistaken identity, to overactive imaginations. The myth itself is such a mystery why do we even need the monster in the flesh. One thing that has always interested me is how the nature of the devil has changed over the years. The earlier stories have it eating childern, ripping off the tops of trees, and causing people to lock themselves in at night. Later stories have it squacking at people and, well, standing there. Based off the early stories, and considering the deformed child theory, that child might have been one scary dude.

As long as scout troops and organizations of that nature keep camping in the pine barrens the legend will live on. I think that is a good thing.

Jeff

BEHR655

03-04-05, 07:40 AM

bobpbx

03-04-05, 07:51 AM

Actually, the first time I was told about the Jersy Devil was in the 1950's when I was a littlle boy living in North Jersey. I was probably living in Metuchen. I have this vivid memory of lying in bed thinking about it, with lightning flashing out the window. They always brought it up during a lightning storm at night. I had no idea of the pine barrens of course. He was a scary, dangerous thing, half man, half who know's what.

bruset

03-04-05, 08:47 AM

He was a scary, dangerous thing, half man, half human.

We've met people in the Pine Barrens who are scarier though. :)

crazyoz

03-06-05, 05:41 PM

He is out there!

long-a-coming

04-06-05, 05:25 PM

I was camping with Boy Scouts about 18 years ago at Atsion Family Campsite. We were doing a night hike/snipe hunt. My dad turned around and started walking back to the campsite stating "he forgot something."
a few minutes later a hideous beast jumped right onto our path and scared the living crap out of us, then disappeared back into the night. A few minutes later my dad caught up to us and asked what had just happened?
The Leeds Devil spared us that night thank God!!!

TeeGate

04-06-05, 08:46 PM

JerseyDevil

06-02-05, 10:22 PM

Definately real. He hangs out with Santa and the easter bunny.

Hey watch it pal... I hang out with No ONE ! :-)

gagliarchives

06-08-05, 03:33 PM

I guess what's funny is, people *really* believe he exists. I believe more in the Eggs in Ongs Hat than that.

bruset

06-08-05, 04:26 PM

I guess what's funny is, people *really* believe he exists. I believe more in the Eggs in Ongs Hat than that.

Woah, he lives!!!!

gagliarchives

06-08-05, 04:47 PM

Yeah...I have been on the job hunt and working with an agent for the radio show. Ugh. Where you been Ben? I want one of those cool stickers :)

bruset

06-08-05, 04:48 PM

Yeah...I have been on the job hunt and working with an agent for the radio show. Ugh. Where you been Ben? I want one of those cool stickers :)

did you order one?

TeeGate

06-08-05, 06:23 PM

Ben,

If he did not order one and wants one, you can always send him the one I ordered.

Guy

suresue592003

06-15-05, 10:35 AM

You cannot kill what is already dead. It is very hard to photograph the supernatural, and that is what the Jersey devil is. Depends on what one believes. Do you believe in life after death? Angels and spirits? How about vistors from outer space?

woodjin

06-15-05, 11:18 AM

about 10 or 11 years ago my wife (then girlfriend) and I were going canoeing down the wading river. The canoe livery guy was driving us down to our start point and we were making small talk. He was obvisiouly a piney. During a break in the conversation I jokingly said, "so, ever see the Jersey devil?' He looks over at me all serious like, looks me up and down, sees that I was joking and then smiles and says; "yeah, everybody likes to have a little fun with the jersey devil" Then after a moment passes he looks back out at the road and says dead pan, almost under his breath, "some of us know better though".

Whoa, you could have cut the alkward silence after that with a knife. I don't think we said another word the whole rest of the ride there.

Jeff

suresue592003

06-16-05, 12:21 PM

I remember hearing something yowling in the swamps of Friendship when I was only six. My father was about 35 years old at the time and born in 1933 (an estimate). He was so shook up! He said he had never heard anything like that in his whole life. Forty years later, I heard it once again at the site of Nash's Cabin. Once you hear it, you never forget it. Nor can you explain it.

Oriental

06-16-05, 12:58 PM

Did you ever hear two raccoons fighting (or mating - who knows) in the middle of the night. It is truely an unearthly sound. It reminds me of someone rubbing damp fingertips down a window pane but much louder! Scared the *#!@ out of me before I got the lights on and saw what it was.

bruset

06-16-05, 07:42 PM

Whoa, you could have cut the alkward silence after that with a knife. I don't think we said another word the whole rest of the ride there.

Jeff

Pine Barrens Faux Paux.

NJSnakeMan

06-24-05, 12:04 PM

hmm... I beleive the jersey devil was just a deformed son that everybody beleived was possesed by the devil since he was the 13th child. Most likely if his parents ditched him like that he isn't living now.

leeds

08-02-05, 11:49 AM

Hello from the state of New Hampshire, does anyone know if there is a real Leeds house or land that belonged to the family?

Stu

08-02-05, 01:49 PM

They definitely owned land in south Jersey, but "the" Leeds House is just a foundation now.

uuglypher

08-03-05, 02:40 AM

[QUOTE=bruset]Woah, he lives!!!![/QUOTE

By the age of four my Dad had populated my mind with the Headless Horseman, Mrs. Leeds unfortunate, fearsome get, Hitler, Baron Munchausen, Musollini, the wraith who lost his "golden arm...", Quisling, Tojo, Hirohito, ... and John Dewey.

When, by the age of five, I was sufficiently curious as to which were the most fearsome I was quickly brought to understand that the contemporary monsters, those to whom could be absolutely and definitively ascribed the wanton deaths of millions of innocents, were of the sort that would have to be met with and dealt with in our own time. And that such as the Leed's Devil, the headless Horseman, and others of their ilk were truly fearsome in their appearance and potential for havoc, but totally lacking in a proven "body count." By the end of every tale of them I heard as a child they thwarted doers of evil and, surprisingly, arranged for a positive outcome to the honest and rightious... According to Dad Mrs. Leed's kid scared the Hell outta Washington which helped him cross the Delaware ... and later traveled down to Yorktown to help the French and the colonists put some whup on Cornwallis.

Years later, Joseph Campbell reinforced to me the notion that myths and the beings that populate them live ... exist ... in the informed actions and attitudes of the folk who have learned, learn from, and pass on those myth traditions.

So , does the Jersey Devil exist? I'll vote yes.

And by-the-bye, I do think my Dad was pretty hard on John Dewey, but he was certainly right that, with time, more contemporary monsters would appear and demand of the world to be dealt with.

Dave in Estelline

Gerania

08-03-05, 09:25 PM

Wow, sounds like your Dad had a pretty interesting notion about what a bedtime story should be!

[QUOTE=bruset]Woah, he lives!!!![/QUOTE

By the age of four my Dad had populated my mind with the Headless Horseman, Mrs. Leeds unfortunate, fearsome get, Hitler, Baron Munchausen, Musollini, the wraith who lost his "golden arm...", Quisling, Tojo, Hirohito, ... and John Dewey.....

Dave in Estelline

uuglypher

08-03-05, 10:25 PM

Wow, sounds like your Dad had a pretty interesting notion about what a bedtime story should be!

[QUOTE=uuglypher]Oh, my Dad's tales weren't limited to bedtime; anytime a point of some sort needed to be made was a good time for a new (or a repeated) story!

Dave

woodjin

08-04-05, 02:04 AM

Dave,
I like your perspective on the Leeds devil and myth in general. When something influences a persons actions, interests and thoughts it certainly does lend merit to its' "realness". Fact is, more people are aware of the Jersey devil than they are aware of my own existence. How many people have lived and died and have been forgotten in the last 270 years while the Leeds devil has remained a constant. So is flesh and blood the only reality? Imagine how empty the world would be without all the intangibles.

Jeff

Windsor

08-14-05, 06:54 PM

Howdy folks. I'm hesitant to post this for my first post, but I did have something mildly eerie happen to me about a month or so ago.

I normally go fishing in the Pine Barrens and enter at Quaker Bridge road off of 206 and Atsion Rd. If you are familiar with that road, I normally make my first stop in a clearing by a small, wooden bridge. There is an old foundation and beaver damn there. It was about 5:45am and the sun was just about making it's way up. I get out of my Jeep and start to rig my fishing rod. As i'm tieing the knot, I heard a twig snap in the trees beyond the opposite side of my Jeep and then this really weird screachy sound which lasted no longer than one second. Like most of us here, I'm a very outdoors type person and I never heard anything like this before. It freaked me out, so I abandoned rigging my rod, threw my gear in the Jeep and shut the doors.

I don't know what it was as I didn't see anything. I regained my composure and completed rigging my rod inside my Jeep and proceded to fish the rest of the day.

I don't know how a creature could live as long as something born during Leed's time. If there are actual real eyewitness accounts, my guess would be that it was a rare, undiscovered species of sorts. There are primates in other parts of the world the size of your thumb. Our winters aren't bad enough here to where intelligent primates couldn't exist, albeit very rare. I think the Leeds baby and the sightings of certain creatures are unrelated.

suresue592003

08-18-05, 10:44 PM

Maybe this all started with the story of the werewolf man. My dad used to tell me about a man who lived in an old abondon car, next to the GreenBank Inn. This man used to walk up and down the road. According to my dad, he looked just like a werewolf, he even had a hunchback. He would see this man on his way to work in the morning to the cedar swamp. No one believed him, so on occasion he would take people with him to see the werewolf man. I knew one such fella, and he swore the story was true. The werewolf man really existed.

Piney Boy

09-23-05, 11:58 AM

Gotta go with the non-believers on this topic. The legends and lore are fantastic, but they are just that; legends and lore. While the Pines are a one million acre tract of land, thats just not that isolated in todays world, especially when you consider a good deal of the area is accessible by car. Most likely the Leeds story, as someone mentioned, was turned into this tale that survived into modern times.

swwit

09-24-05, 11:49 AM

:jd:He's out there. watching us in the darkness. :jd:

popeofthepines

04-04-06, 11:11 AM

I agree that there is more legend/lore than any proof. The belief that it was used to scare children from going into the woods makes sense. And how did JD live this long? Who does he/she/it reproduce with to keep the family tree going? Does the family tree have any branches in it?

The Leed's family story is believable if you look at it as the malformed child being born and having possible complications from the birth and maybe to explain the baby away the legend was born. And just as if you sit in a circle and tell a story by the time it gets back to you it has been changed/modified so along those lines the story has changed into something that is a legend. I cant believe all the times I have been in the Pine Barrens at different times of the year, day and night, that i have seen nothing to hint at his existence. I have seen some weird things in the Pine Barrens but never anything to be described as the Jersey Devil, 13th Child of mother Leed's who hangs outr near the old abandoned trailer in the woods lol.
I have seen red eyes once in the woods for a second and someone else saw them as well so I was not alone but they were gone by the time we doubled back and that is the closest encounter I think I have had.

Has anyone ever seen the X-files take on JD? Very off beat. lol

:jd:

mrseller

05-16-06, 05:05 PM

it was dated back to the 1700's and 1800s
even people high up and well known reported sightings back in the day

TeeGate

05-16-06, 06:48 PM

it was dated back to the 1700's and 1800s
even people high up and well known reported sightings back in the day

They had one too many to drink.

Guy

grendel

05-16-06, 06:50 PM

When I was 13 or 14 I was camping alone on the bogs north of hampton furnace, it was october. About an hour before dark I went for a walk along the road which borders the west side of the bogs .I was looking down at the road when something crossed the road in front of me.I never saw it only a flash of movement, but it left a lot of brush moving in its wake.It also sounded large, and the footfalls were heavy and it just did not sound like deer.Deer have that intermittent sound to their running as they bound through the brush.
I started to head back to camp , and yup you guessed it this thing is shadowing me back in the brush.It was very stealthy ,faint noises ,except when I would stop and stare for a moment there was this heavy thumping sound. I got back into my camp ( which was in the woods on the same side of the road as the sounds) it was starting to get dark.
I cooked dinner over a camp stove while my visitor circled, I did not want to go back into the brush for fire wood.After I ate I crawled in the tent and lay there listening.Then I heard something close,right behind the tent .I was trying to work up the courage to shine the flashlight out the back window when this thing started screaming,I have never to this day heard any sound in the woods that could come close to that sound.The volume was like a car horn at close range. It kept up this screaming and growling for several minutes ,I was frozen with fear. Finally I screamed "shut up!" it just stopped and walked off. After a sleepless night I got my gear together and hiked fast to Atsion. There were no tracks in the pine needles behind the tent and I was not about to look in the brush.
Well that is my story.It is hard to look at things the same after that.
some peopletell me it was a big buck in rut bellowing,well if deer can sound that loud we would need bigger guns!