New Jersey trails plan

[ecampbell]

http://www.njtrailsplan.org/

Includes a survey.

[BEHR655]

This is pertaining to the rivers in Wharton:

Needs: Although access and parking areas may
be considered primitive, it is the nature of the
environment and the quality of the wilderness
experience, which are priorities, especially along
the Lower Atsion and the Batsto.
Recommendations include developing and
printing brochures with maps showing river
access and parking areas, and numbered
sections of the river along sand access roads to
help rangers locate and respond to
emergencies. The brochures could be
distributed to the public and local liveries that
use the river. Maintenance of sand access
roads and crossings such as Hampton and
Quaker Bridge roads, is an ongoing and costly
effort that could be alleviated with additional
funding for materials and personnel. Litter
requires ongoing attention. Programs such as
"carry-in/carry-out" and volunteer services
through Clean Communities grants need to be
continued.
congestion detracts from the natural experience
most users come to enjoy. To approach the
problem, a study needs to be done to determine
the use patterns on all of the rivers in the
Wharton system so that an accounting of the
numbers of users, peak periods of use and
types and extent of the environmental impact
can be accurately assessed. Discussions
solutions to the problem should include all
interested parties such as the Division of Parks
and Forestry, the Pinelands Commission and
local commercial liveries. Based on the study,
solutions may be found and implemented.
These may include recommendations to alleviate
the pressures on the Wading and Oswego
improving access along the Lower Atsion and
the Batsto, or development of agreements
designated or restricted access, between the
Division of Parks and Forestry and local liveries,
so that park service officials may have authority
to better monitor and manage river use.

I think they should restrict the liveries to the Wading and Oswego and leave the Mullica and Batsto alone.

Steve

[ecampbell]

They should restrict the number of canoes they can drop off in an hour. If they fix up the Mullica and the Batsto, they'll be a mess too. It's better to keep them primitive.

[TeeGate]

That 1996 pdf file is 126 pages.

Guy

[TeeGate]

Concerning the Jersey Central Route.

"Shared use of the line as a trail should be considered because the line is continuous, has good access, and nine of ten stream crossings have bridges intact."


I would assume the only one not intact is the one DeMarco dug up that supplied his bogs and is called "Big Bertha". That was not a bridge.

And

The line is owned by the New Jersey Department of Transportation, with planned light freight use.

????



Guy

[BEHR655]

I took the survey. I found it disturbing that they asked about purchases and such. It's always about money.:jeffd:

Steve

[TeeGate]

I took the survey. I found it disturbing that they asked about purchases and such. It's always about money.:jeffd:

Steve

I can tell by the way the pdf files are written, it is not your average hiker who composed it. Someone with a suit in a cushy office no doubt. One that would never hike them maybe.

Guy

[NJHIKERADAM]

How about getting the Rangers to actually do their jobs....get them out on the trails,ticketing people for littering.............Carry in Carry out is a freaking joke.....What good is a rule or law if noone enforces it?

[woodjin]

How about getting the Rangers to actually do their jobs....get them out on the trails,ticketing people for littering.............Carry in Carry out is a freaking joke.....What good is a rule or law if noone enforces it?

The trails are too numerous and cover too many miles for the rangers to, realistically, catch individual hikers littering. I would like to see them do stake outs for dumpers though. It seems there are certain spots that seem to be hot spots for dumpers. I ran into one ranger who was patrolling in a popular dump area. Not much good it did. They really need to stake it out and wait. The dumping is probably they greatest threat to the environment short of develpement.

[pinelandpaddler]

"I think they should restrict the liveries to the Wading and Oswego and leave the Mullica and Batsto alone."

I concur, Ed.

"so that park service officials may have authority to better monitor and manage river use"

Hmmm...I wonder what this might translate as....

[Piney Boy]

The state of affairs regarding NJ trails is a joke if you ask me. Parks and recreation is woefully underfunded and could benefit from hiring on some additional trail rangers, not just figures at Park offices and trash dumps. I am not condemning those currently working, I'm sure there intentions are good, but things are really in disrepair and being misused.
Guy is 100% right, while its important to bring marketers and advertisers in on the creation of a long term plan, its also just as important to have intelligent outdoor enthisiast, if not professionals, involved as well. After reading this it was obvious the folks involved had little understanding of the hiking or outdoor culture. They need to take a page out of the PA handbook, because thats one state that is constantly increasing trail miles and care of them. I'll attend the upcoming meeting in September to try and get an idea were everything currently stands, anybody else?

[grendel]

The trails are too numerous and cover too many miles for the rangers to, realistically, catch individual hikers littering. I would like to see them do stake outs for dumpers though. It seems there are certain spots that seem to be hot spots for dumpers. I ran into one ranger who was patrolling in a popular dump area. Not much good it did. They really need to stake it out and wait. The dumping is probably they greatest threat to the environment short of develpement.


To many roads in the pines.

[LARGO]

The trails are too numerous and cover too many miles for the rangers to, realistically, catch individual hikers littering. I would like to see them do stake outs for dumpers though.

Agree completely. Yes, of course there are many trails. It is still worth the effort. A stakeout for a dumper could yield a large catch, like a siding or blockwork company that loves to save money by canning their jobsite refuse in the pines. Now that would trump a guy leaving his burger wrapper and soda bottle. I wish just once I could nail one of these.

[Piney Boy]

Agree completely. Yes, of course there are many trails. It is still worth the effort. A stakeout for a dumper could yield a large catch, like a siding or blockwork company that loves to save money by canning their jobsite refuse in the pines. Now that would trump a guy leaving his burger wrapper and soda bottle. I wish just once I could nail one of these.

I still think the overwhelming majority of trash is coming from vehicular traffic and not hikers, generally they are a bunch who observe the rules of good conduct. I would be all for blocking traffic to a point like Apple Pie Hill, that would definitely cut down on that mess regularly found up there.
I hear you though, to catch just one of them...Last Fall hiking out of the Lower Forge I was raised out of my woods gazing by crashing through underbrush and hooting. Soon after I hear shouts of "clear the way!clear the way!" Two mountain bikers were crashing on and off the Batona, illegally, and just leaving a swathe of destruction behind them. Well I didn't move and forced them to stop at which time I asked them what they were doing on the Batona. They got angry quick and asked what I cared, I then informed them I was a National Park Ranger and it was illegal to ride bikes on the Batona. That made them double take and apoligize, but the point is that foot patrols from rangers are desperately needed to keep our Pines not only intact but enjoyable for all. Not all the time mind you, but just once a week even.

[woodjin]

I still think the overwhelming majority of trash is coming from vehicular traffic and not hikers, generally they are a bunch who observe the rules of good conduct.

I agree. Hikers don't seem like likely canidates for litterbugs. As for vehicular traffic...I would say yes and no. I think most people who get back in the deep woods tend not to litter. A bunch of kids going out to party will. So much of the litter I see in the woods seems to be beer cans.

I still think that the illegal dumpers account for, just taking a guess, 85% of the total garbage in the woods. I'm not taking into account the roadside garbage on the highways like 72 and 70 which is mostly from out of towners and out of staters, and is horrible!!!!

I am always surprised at the amount of garbage on the rivers like the mullica and the basto and especially the wading rivers. Not the type of crowd you would expect to be littering. But alot of those people who go through the liveries are out of staters or just people looking for something to do rather than outdoorsmen and women.

Jeff

[this_is_nascar]

I've only been wheeling for a few months now, but if I had a buck for every beer can/bottle I saw...............

There really no excuse for the littering. I take a cooler of water/soda with use when we wheel and the empties always come out with us, whether that means they go back in the cooler or in the truck bed.

[Piney Boy]

I agree. Hikers don't seem like likely canidates for litterbugs. As for vehicular traffic...I would say yes and no. I think most people who get back in the deep woods tend not to litter. A bunch of kids going out to party will. So much of the litter I see in the woods seems to be beer cans.

I still think that the illegal dumpers account for, just taking a guess, 85% of the total garbage in the woods. I'm not taking into account the roadside garbage on the highways like 72 and 70 which is mostly from out of towners and out of staters, and is horrible!!!!

I am always surprised at the amount of garbage on the rivers like the mullica and the basto and especially the wading rivers. Not the type of crowd you would expect to be littering. But alot of those people who go through the liveries are out of staters or just people looking for something to do rather than outdoorsmen and women.

Jeff

I agree all over the board with you there Jeff. As people have already mentioned stakeouts are really the only way to catch dumpers in the act, and for that the State is going to have to up patrols. It seems I continually watch out of towners litter everything from cigarette butts to fast food trash, perhaps bill boards, ala 70's Native American crying, along with real enforcement for littering would help dial it down some.
The rivers are maybe the saddest of them all, even if not the highest volume. It seems not just to be drunken parties, but families, church and busness groups making a huge amount of trash on our rivers. I took a Saturday trip on the Wding in July and got to see a church group first hand lose an entire coolers worth of stuff in the river and make no attempt to capture it. Thats besides how I gotten to listen on the outfitters ride over how the leader continually smoke of how the river was an outlet for toilets all over the region. Even if the river had been empty that ruined my entire day. I've watched it first hand on 3 seperate river trips this summer, and that goes a long with a general ignorance to wilderness values. Its really sad with no easy solutions.

[woodjin]

Its really sad with no easy solutions.

I hear ya.

[Boyd]

I'm not taking into account the roadside garbage on the highways like 72 and 70 which is mostly from out of towners and out of staters, and is horrible!!!!

I'd like to think you're right, but I'm constantly surprised by what slobs people are and how they don't seem to mind "fouling their nest". I see people toss stuff out of their windows all the time. And in the city walking down the street it isn't unusual to see people just throw trash on the sidewalk as they walk.

But one of my pet peeves is smokers. They don't think that cigarette butts are trash. And these are often people who are otherwise polite and would never litter. Have a party and the smokers will go out in your driveway and just toss cigarette butts on the ground, but they wouldn't dream of throwning other trash in your yard. Why is that? And those filters don't seem to break down for a long time. I seem them out in the woods too.

And I suspect that the illegal dumpers are not out-of-staters, and probably not even out-of-towners because they wouldn't know how to find the popular dumping spots if they were....

[Trailhead00]

I Two mountain bikers were crashing on and off the Batona, illegally, and just leaving a swathe of destruction behind them.

I understand you are not supposed to ride your bike on the Batona Trail but I think a lot of people don't even realize what it is and just think it is a simple old trail in the woods. I don't really believe mountain bikes were leaving a swathe of destruction, I don't know how a bike could? I get the impression that most mountain bikers obviously love the outdoors and respect it. If we are going to get mad at people for riding their bikes in the woods then we really have problems, at least they are out enjoying the outdoors. If you aren't into hiking you might not even realize you were on the Batona Trail. Just tell them they are not permitted to ride on the trail in a nice way and I'm sure they would oblige. People like to go in the woods and in the pines to do different things. Many people have different interests. I think sometimes people think if everyone is not doing what they are doing then it is wrong. Example: If you hike, good for you, but other people may like to do other things. Maybe some people like to bird watch but many things could scare away some birds, like a car or even a horse. We shouldn't then ban those. It goes the other way as well. A lot of four wheelers enjoy the pines but they also have to understand that not all people are interested in that activity. Some people just want peace and quiet. I guess my point is that we all enjoy the pines for different reasons we all want to protect it but we have to give people the chance to discover it for themselves and promote it the best way we know how. This was not directed at one particular person, just that quote got me thinking. I think some people, me included, like the fact that the pine barrens is a secluded area that is not really promoted. We may talk about the fact that the state does not do enough to encourage people to visit the pines and that if we did this or that more people would come. I believe deep down we may not really want more people out in the pines. My family has been in the area for 250 years and at times I feel like the pines belong to me more when compared to some newbies, but they don't and they belong to everyone who wants to enjoy them, however they see fit.

[Piney Boy]

Trailhead00:

Your right in some respects, we all enjoy using the outoors in different ways, its what brings variety and spice to life; I myself enjoy fishing, kayaking,and the occasional trail ride through the Pines. We should however find out about locations before we use them. Most people do find out about a location before going there right? And the Batona is marked as being just a footpath in more than one area. I understand Mt. Bikers want a challenge outside of a flat open path, and outside the trail in Brenden Byrne I dont think they have a lot of options for this, but designated trails are that way for a reason. The two guys I saw were ripping up the undergrowth off trail as much as on, although my wording of swath of destruction was a little over the top though:rolleyes:. The fact of the matter is though this was last Fall, and when I was out there in Spring the damage they did still existed. I'm sure it was more fun and challenging for them to use the Batona in such a fashion, but it was indeed ripping up trail. They rutted it and beat up the undergrowth something fierce, making the future walkers path tougher and a little less sightly. I've worked on more then one A.T. trail crew to learn that biker repair is hard work. Horses are even worse, nothing like playing landmine hiking for miles on end, they chew up more trail and make for less happy hiking then the bikers do. I just really think that when each of us, with our own prospective interest, have the ability to follow the rules and use the areas designated for them we should do our best to follow them. If for no other reason then to respect others in the woods around us.
You are 100% right about the Pines ownership thing, I've battled it for years within myself, looking sideways at some that are obviously from out of the area. And what are they usually doing; not littering or causing habitat destruction, but having a simple good time. The older I've gotten though, and the farther away I've explored, I've come to see real peril in this line of thinking. While hiking the Appalachian Trail in Tennessee locals "fishhooked" the trail, trying to catch hikers and injure them. What did it get them? Less people? NO WAY, just hikers leaving the area with bad opinions about the locals. We often think more people will equal more problems, if not less isolation. I really believe however that if the State markets and protects areas the way they should be we will find an area cleaner, safer, and more enjoyable for all.

Hope to see you on the trail....unless your on The Batona on a horse or bike then its gonna be :siren: :jeffd: :mad: ......jk:)

[woodjin]

And I suspect that the illegal dumpers are not out-of-staters, and probably not even out-of-towners because they wouldn't know how to find the popular dumping spots if they were....

Good point!

[NewSchoolPiney]

I ran into one ranger who was patrolling in a popular dump area. Not much good it did. They really need to stake it out and wait. The dumping is probably they greatest threat to the environment short of develpement.

I don't think they have the time to do that when they are too busy stealthily staking out popular campsites like Hawkins Bridge to catch people doing things illegal while camping. Such a shame really. There are a few spots I visit on a regular basis and just bring trashbags because I know it will be littered with trash when I get there.

[Piney Boy]

So anybody else stop by this meeting Tuesday? I did, and while an interesting point or two was made, like turning the Old Central Jersey into a hiking route, I came away disappointed. The gentlemen in running the show, while a nice guy, was simply in charge of grants and didn't have a real understanding of what he was dealing with. People milled around, filled out those same online forms, and pretty much left. There was really no Q & A's and most there as representatives kept to themselves in the corners. This didn't go for all, I met a nice women involved with the Green Way project, but she was the exception.
Still, looks like the turn out had been decent however judging from the stack of forms I saw. Hopefully something positive will come out of this.