windows vista

[james ungehajer]

:) Has anyone upgraded to windows vista,comments,worth the price?

[TeeGate]

I was reading an article on it last night which is at the below link. However, the paragraph below tells quite a bit especially about the recommended ram and graphic card you need to run it properly. And to add to it I was reading a thread the other night where a person mentioned how cool it looked, but failed to know that the Mac OSX has looked that way for 5 years. Microsoft spent a billion dollars to have it look like a Mac.


From the below link.

In fact, you'll have a field day noting things on Vista that have been in the Mac OS for years.) If you do upgrade, you must choose between several versions of Vista, depending on whether your computer is up to the task of running the system's sophisticated "Aero" graphics system. If you don't have a fairly recent machine with at least 1 gigabyte of memory (preferably 2) you'll be stuck with the drab $100 Vista Basic; otherwise you have to figure out whether you're a candidate for the $159 Home Premium version or the full-featured $259 Vista Ultimate. (Those are the prices for upgrades; if you're starting from scratch, the prices are a whopping $199, $239 and $399.)


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16893308/site/newsweek/


Guy

[james ungehajer]

:) yes,it seems like every few years,a new version of windows comes out,it is getting ridiculous,the constant security patches,internet explorer errors,i am starting to seriously considering purchasing a mac,my only one concern though,i do like to play role playing games,arcade,sports games,but i presume the tradeoff is worth it,i have already reformatted and reinstalled my computer three times since i purchased it two years ago.(compaq 5000)(512 ram)(6200 nvidia overclocked graphics card)

[bruset]

It's been what, like 5 years since XP came out. This is the longest time in between releases for a Microsoft OS.

The constant patches are a good thing. People hack Windows because it's the most widely used OS in the world. Linux and OSX are not immune from patches, and if you look at overall patches distributed per year, there are many more for Red Hat Linux than there are for Windows.

I ran Vista on my laptop for a while, but switched back to XP. I only have 1gb of RAM in it and XP is far and away faster. Aero is not worth the slow speeds.

[james ungehajer]

It's been what, like 5 years since XP came out. This is the longest time in between releases for a Microsoft OS.

The constant patches are a good thing. People hack Windows because it's the most widely used OS in the world. Linux and OSX are not immune from patches, and if you look at overall patches distributed per year, there are many more for Red Hat Linux than there are for Windows.

I ran Vista on my laptop for a while, but switched back to XP. I only have 1gb of RAM in it and XP is far and away faster. Aero is not worth the slow speeds.

thanks ben,i will definitely stay with windows xp after your input,vista slows things down? now i am deciding if i want to switch from internet explorer 6 to 7?

[bruset]

Vista is noticeably slower on the same hardware (Dell Inspiron E1505) than XP. But on the same token, Bluetooth works FAR better in Vista than it does in XP.

As for IE7, I say go for it. It's a great browser.

[james ungehajer]

:v: Thank you ben,windows internet explorer 7 here i come.The one problem though,i only have dial up at the current time.

[bruset]

If you only have dialup then it's not worth it. Just surf with what you have.

[Jerseyman]

Vista is noticeably slower on the same hardware (Dell Inspiron E1505) than XP. But on the same token, Bluetooth works FAR better in Vista than it does in XP.

As for IE7, I say go for it. It's a great browser.

Ben:

I agree with you about IE7 being a great browser, ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT. The screen personna for IE7 is radically different than IE6, so if anyone who does not like to upset the status quo, a change to IE7 will definitely rock your world! :confused:

It took some getting used to, but I'm finding my way around in it now. :dance:

Best regards,
Jerseyman

[NewSchoolPiney]

All,

I just have one word: Firefox (it's W3C and CSS2 compliant)

http://www.firefox.org/

Being a web developer, I know that IE has never been W3C Standards compliant or compliant with the DOM and CSS outlined by the W3C as well. Because they are the most popular browser, it has taken countless hours by many skilled people to develop "hacks" to get around Microsoft's ignorance of the standards outlined by the W3C.

The main things about IE7 that make it so I will not upgrade from 6:
- They stole Firefox's tabbed browsing idea
- ** Instead of fixing their compliance problems with the CSS and DOM standards outlined by the W3C, they just made the 'hacks' inoperable, which many of us used to make our sites compliant. So in effect, they didn't address any of the problems, just made the only solutions to these problems obsolete.

That last point really ticked me off. If you're not going to fix compliance issues with CSS and the DOM, DO NOT remove the only solutions that many people have spent days and days figuring out.

Basically, a lot of people are now back to the drawing board to figuring out 'new hacks' instead of being able to use the old ones, because Microsoft is too lazy to address the real problems.

I had to rant because the word was that Microsoft was going to fix their compliance issues so web designers/developers could spend less time figuring out 'hacks' and more time designing/coding sites that are W3C compliant.

Peace,

Justin

[james ungehajer]

:mrgreen: Vista is noticeably slower on the same hardware (Dell Inspiron E1505) than XP. But on the same token, Bluetooth works FAR better in Vista than it does in XP.

As for IE7, I say go for it. It's a great browser.

:mrgreen: Downloaded IE7 through the windows update,i like it alot better than IE6.

[Boyd]

If you use iTunes then you might want to wait awhile before upgrading to Vista...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070202/apple_vista_warning.html?.v=6

According to a notice posted on Apple's Web site, compatibility problems include the inability to play music or video purchased from the online iTunes store, difficulties synchronizing contacts and calendars and possible failures of iPods plugged into a Vista computer. Apple also outlined precautionary steps users could take to try to minimize any problems should they upgrade to Vista now.

[james ungehajer]

:mrgreen: I was also looking at mozilla firefox.

[wis bang]

:mrgreen: I was also looking at mozilla firefox.
My IT guy has just upgraded one of our servers and he switched us to mozilla. I use IE7 on my personal stuff yet.

[ecampbell]

Ben:

I agree with you about IE7 being a great browser, ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT. The screen personna for IE7 is radically different than IE6, so if anyone who does not like to upset the status quo, a change to IE7 will definitely rock your world! :confused:

It took some getting used to, but I'm finding my way around in it now. :dance:

Best regards,
Jerseyman

Amen to that. IE7 is an inprovement, but takes time to get used to.

[Boyd]

Here's something else to keep in mind before you upgrade to Vista, from an article in this week's BARRONS:

My somewhat older laptop had trouble with Vista itself, never mind the gadgets. At a creaky 18 months old, it didn't have the power to run anything but basic Vista, and it did that in fits and starts and very slowly. Worst of all, when I tried to roll the machine back to XP, I discovered that, once you do a full upgrade, Vista cannot be uninstalled. All you can do is reformat the hard drive, lose all your data and programs and reinstall XP all over again. Seeking confirmation of this from the Microsoft Website, I discovered the company was at that point charging $245 per incident for a support call.

[james ungehajer]

$245 per support call,that is outrageous!!!!!!! When i used to call them for help,i would hang up on them after a couple of minutes,i could not comprehand the broken english!!!!!!

[TeeGate]

My wife bought a new computer a few months back, and it came with a discounted Vista upgrade. She paid about $50 or so for it online and it has not come. It still says pending. One would think they would have a copy to send her. We are beginning to think it may never come.

Guy

[Sue Gremlin]

We did the same thing and have not received ours yet, either.

[james ungehajer]

My wife bought a new computer a few months back, and it came with a discounted Vista upgrade. She paid about $50 or so for it online and it has not come. It still says pending. One would think they would have a copy to send her. We are beginning to think it may never come.

Guy

:) That upgrade in my opinion,should have been available to everyone the day it was officially released!!!!! No reason for the delay!!!!! And because of the delay,a better version should be given at no extra charge!!!!!

[amf]

If you look back at macrosquat's history, they have a tradition of coming out with "new" os versions that are dogs, followed by versions that get it right. IIRC, ms-dos 4.0 was one of the dogs that replaced a perfectly functional ms-dos 3. 4.0 was shortly replaced by dos 5.0, which worked well.

As windoze came along, the early versions were pretty pathetic, particularly when compared to what apple offered at the time. They seemed to finally get things to run relatively smoothly with win98, then had the winME debacle. XP once again seemed to clean things up, provided you were not taking a snooze on security issues. My concern with vista is that it will be one of their dogs, only its become such a juggernaut there is no way to avoid it. I'm in the market for a new machine right now, and would do so today if I could get it with XP.

And on the browser issue, go with firefox... you won't regret it!

[Boyd]

Forbes Magazine just came out with a review that is rather negative....

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0226/050.html?partner=yahoomag

But as with every previous version, there's no wow here, not even in ironic quotes. Vista is at best mildly annoying and at worst makes you want to rush to Redmond, Wash. and rip somebody's liver out.

[james ungehajer]

:mrgreen: I did not want to start a new thread,but i downloaded mozilla firefox 2 at 5.00 a.m. this morning,and i am definitely impressed with it.Of course the first site i bookmarked was N.J.PineBarrens.com

[bruset]

I can see why Vista would not run on an 18 month old laptop. The graphics cards in older (and yes, 18 months is an old laptop) laptops are generally integrated cards with small amounts of RAM.

When XP came out, people hated it. Now it's pretty well accepted. The same thing happened when Windows 98 came out.

It's very easy to bash Microsoft. In fact, it's pretty much the "in" thing to do. People have options now. They can spend a ton of money and buy a new Mac, which have well known hardware problems (at least the laptops), or they can run Linux on their desktop. As long as you're not looking to go outside the lines with Linux, you may like it. It's certainly going to be faster, you can run Firefox and Thunderbird, and do many other things that you can do with a Windows machine.

Vista did make some boneheaded UI decisions (why do they hide the File / Edit / View / Etc. menu everywhere, why did they munge up the control panel) but in terms of stability -- if it's installed from scratch on a good machine, you shouldn't have any problems. If you have a rickety XP install with exotic or old hardware, it may not work so well.

[james ungehajer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070222/ap_on_bi_ge/microsoft_virtual_vista;_ylt=Ao4n1JKn2VDj2aS8bDv7H SuyBhIF

Check out this vista article from microsoft.

[TeeGate]

You have to realize that this article for the most part does not effect the basic Windows user. It deals mainly with those who run Vista and have software that only runs on XP with VirtualPC being used. And it also effects Mac users running Parallels such as Ben did when he had a Mac.

In any event, the article highlights the fact that Microsoft thinks that the basic home Windows users are not technically savvy enough to handle their software. And if you are a Windows user you MUST purchase their more expensive software in order to be a home user and run VirtualPC. But Mac users can purchase their cheaper software and run it just fine with Boot Camp. Basically, their faithful customers get the shaft while those who buy Macs don’t. Do you want to use products from a company that treats you that way?

Guy

[Boyd]

Do you want to use products from a company that treats you that way?

Unfortunately the answer must be "yes" or Microsoft wouldn't control 90+ percent of the operating system market and probably something similar for the Office Suite.

But for me personally, I voted with my feet and sold my MSFT stock two weeks ago after holding it for about 6 years. IMO, they have completely lost their way...

[LARGO]

Here's the deal, I need your honest and hopefully educated opinions on this.
I have waited and listened & heard Pros/Cons. I am starting over totally on a new system and pretty much have it all laid out with Dell. I know, dirty word to some. I myself like Dell and actually have not had bad customer service experiences. I was concerned about problems with Vista but here it is in a nutshell. Now, you basically have to request XP.
Order new and you're gettin Vista & I feel XP has run it's course. It's done soon anyway isn't it? Sorry if that sounds stupid.This thread has been enlightening and I do have other input but...
Can you guys who know or use it give me a real assessment?
I mean the following with the most respect to all... I don't care one bit about the politics and stock market standings of Dell,Microsoft, or Hostess Twinkies.
Sorry if that was rude. What I do care about are the informed assessments from respected site members.
Past experiences do have me getting a dedicated rather than integrated Vid card.

Anyone?

G.

[james ungehajer]

George

I agree with you totally on the dedicated video card, my first computer with win 95 had an integrated card, i wanted a better card installed because i was heavily at that time into graphics demanding games, the computer guy told me the only way to get a better video card was that he had to use a jumper to bypass the original card to use the new card, what i have learned IMHO is to get the fastest processor, the best video card, sound card etc, from my very limited knowledge of vista i think you need the above mentioned to properly run vista.

I like all computer models, what you like is what you like and that is your decision and your decision only, i was looking at a dell system about a year ago, the only thing that stopped me from purchasing it was monetary reasons, besides the wife.:) It was matter of factly the only model that offered everything that i wanted that i mentioned above.

So whether a person has a compaq, hewlitt packard, dell or mac i respect all of them.

Go for it.

[Boyd]

I was just reading a discussion of some issues with Vista on another forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=708230&postcount=1

hardware drivers might well suddenly stop working with regularity as microsoft revokes those drivers, PC graphics subsystems will warm restart for no reason with some regularity, and video software performance will take a substantial hit due to added layers of heavy encryption/decryption and constant polling of hardware.

I'm a moderator at this site which is devoted to digital video, and people there are holding off on Vista because software packages like Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, etc. are not fully supporting it yet and there are lots of problems. Sounds like it will take a number of months, maybe longer, before these are resolved.

At work our IT people have no plan to migrate to Vista anytime soon.

Also funny because yesterday my friend wrote me that she has reached the end of her patience with her Sony Vaio running Vista. Last March I went PC shopping with her because she wanted to buy a new computer here in the US before returning home to Greece in a couple days. She used Macs while at film school and didn't like them, so I didn't even try to change her mind on that account. At a big electronics store in NYC (J&R) they no longer stocked any machines with Windows XP so she went with Vista.

Yesterday she said she was thinking of selling the PC and getting a Mac because she's so frustrated. She isn't a "computer person" at all and just wants things to work as expected so she can get her work done, but her existing software either won't run or has issues. She was really very upset and said she was ready to throw her laptop out the window!

If you do decide to go with Vista I suggest you do a little digging and see if the software you regularly use works properly. Otherwise you might want to play it safe and just get XP since you could always upgrade later.

[bruset]

She isn't a "computer person" at all and just wants things to work as expected so she can get her work done

That's the best argument for getting a Mac. It just works.

Here's why I got rid of my Macbook Pro, though:

1) Produced way too much heat. I had to buy an aluminum stand for it, whereas with my Dell laptops I can just put them right on my desk.

2) Stupid home/end keys don't work as they should in Windows and Linux. If I press home it should go to the beginning of the line. If I press end it should go to the end. I use this a LOT.

3) I manage some Windows servers and the version of Remote Desktop that Microsoft released for OSX is pretty awful. It's slow, and you can only connect to one server at a time, versus having multiple connections open to different (and even the same) server in Windows and Linux.

4) A lot of time I would close the lid and the laptop wouldn't go to sleep. When I would get home I'd find a roasting hot (as in would burn your fingers) laptop all closed up in my backpack.

I think at least #1 would have been mitigated if I had gotten a Macbook as opposed to the Macbook Pro.

[LARGO]

O.k.,
You guys have me scared. I was hoping that purchasing a new machine and starting from scratch would be safe as it seemed upgrades were in fact the problem and not the product itself. I am not buying a laptop so I can't really assess the decision based on that. To me cooling issues are always present. Either way I am getting the system next week but I now may be chewing on ordering it with XP. At the least it is the system I know. I just fear that a future upgrade may invite the many problems discussed here unless they work all the bugs out. If I still have support regarding XP maybe that ain't so bad. My head IT guy is out till Monday and he will be my last consult because he is brutally honest and really good. My company has not made mention of it as a change either.
Well, I asked for good consult and you've given it and I'm lost. Thanks though for informed responses.


G.

[Boyd]

If I still have support regarding XP maybe that ain't so bad.

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-6175735-7.html

Starting next year you won't be able to buy a new PC loaded with Windows XP, despite the lukewarm reception of Windows Vista.

Microsoft will stop selling Windows XP to PC makers such as Dell, Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard by January 31, a company representative confirmed Thursday. The software maker will stop selling XP to system builders, the smaller custom PC makers, a year later, the representative said.

Since you're considering a Dell, you might also find this blog on their site interesting...

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/04/04/10397.aspx

You can also find some interesting things at Microsoft's "Lifecycle Support" site. According to this, they will end all support of XP on April 14, 2009... mark your calendar :)

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?C2=1173

[bruset]

Yeah, but when you buy a PC from Dell/Lenovo/etc. your support for the OS comes from Dell/Lenovo/etc. Microsoft is still going to be making security updates/patches for XP through 4/8/2014.

Now, you can still call Microsoft with a support question - at a cost of $250 per call, refundable if you have a problem based on a bug or defect in the OS - but that support will end, as Boyd said, on April 14, 2009.

As a coincidence, the Titanic hit an iceberg on April 14, 1912.

[TeeGate]

Even though I have always owned a Mac, and always will, there still are some annoying problems where they “just don’t work”. I still can’t get iPhoto to print multiple photo’s on on page properly, and they never are the proper size. And the quality is never what I had hoped for. I print out photo’s on the Mac side in my computer, and switch over to Windows and they look so much better there. And I still have not been able to burn a complete full quality tape from Jessica’s video camera onto a DVD using iMovie or iDVD.

And the Windows Media Player problem which may be Windows fault is a mess. However, finally most news sites such as CNN has changed so that problem is getting less and less. BTW, if you have not been to CNN lately it is much much better. In the end the biggest problem with Mac’s is the lack of availability of software. With most people wanting to come home from work to use the same software there, the Mac is not the way to go. But if you can get past that if that is your preference, there is no better computer than a Mac.


Guy

[LARGO]

Good info all, thanks...
Just spent some good phone time with a sharp IT guy from my wife's church.
He runs vista on his HP laptop happily with 1.5 gig. Has one glich left he wants to work out.
His points are as such, for my needs on a home PC system I should be fine and support from Dell as they sold me the system should be there even if I wish to downgrade back to XP which I do not think I would do. If I accept auto updates & fixes how can I go wrong??
I think since I am playing the novice here, why not just learn Vista from scratch and be open minded?? I still feel like I'm gonna roll with it.. I will gladly accept help from anyone willing to give once I've committed to this.
Guy, I know Jack about Mac so I trust your opinion is sound. Wish me luck!

g.

[bobpbx]

Speaking of CNN, I sent them an angry email. They annoy me when they post a sensational story with video only, in the hopes that people who are gluttons for seeing someone else in misery will click on the video so they can run an advertisement. The latest one is.."toddler dies in hot car". That is exploitation at its very worst.

[bruset]

Yeah, I never watch the CNN videos. I usually go to http://news.google.com and hope that they've picked up on another outlet that has the same story in text form.

[james ungehajer]

Good info all, thanks...
Just spent some good phone time with a sharp IT guy from my wife's church.
He runs vista on his HP laptop happily with 1.5 gig. Has one glich left he wants to work out.
His points are as such, for my needs on a home PC system I should be fine and support from Dell as they sold me the system should be there even if I wish to downgrade back to XP which I do not think I would do. If I accept auto updates & fixes how can I go wrong??
I think since I am playing the novice here, why not just learn Vista from scratch and be open minded?? I still feel like I'm gonna roll with it.. I will gladly accept help from anyone willing to give once I've committed to this.
Guy, I know Jack about Mac so I trust your opinion is sound. Wish me luck!

g.

George, how much ram will the system have ?

[bobpbx]

Yeah, I never watch the CNN videos. I usually go to http://news.google.com and hope that they've picked up on another outlet that has the same story in text form.

Yup, I do the exact same thing.

[LARGO]

George, how much ram will the system have ?

Starting with 2g.
Think I'll be fine.
Learning more & more about how reliant Vista is on the Vid card though.
My own MIS guy today gave me a good review on it coupled with a new machine
and definately supported other folk's woes regarding upgrades problems.
I am feeling pretty good about my final decision and ordered it this morn'.

g.

[james ungehajer]

Looks like my 2 year old computer will not at all run vista

500,00 ram, 1.8 ghz, 6200 overclocked nvidia video card, sound blastr live sound card, by your video card requirement are you talking the dual processor card is the minimum to run vista ?

Looks like xp sp2 for me until my next computer.