Newest Collection of Maps [Archive] - NJ Pine Barrens Forums

TeeGate

12-14-02, 10:43 AM

Looking the maps over, it is interesting how things change over the years. On one map Mount Holly is written as Mountholly, and on a couple of maps Hampton Furnace is called Hampton Forge. Is there a difference between forge and furnace? It also is apparent that Cedar Bridge was at one time a key intersection on the way to the shore, but today most people don't even know it exists. And on the Morse-Jedidiah map of 1794, the Mullica river is called Mullieus. So far I have seen references of Union Clay Works as far back as 1836, and the Forked River Mountains are displayed prominently as Bob mentioned as far back as 1836. By 1860 on the Johnson map, Washington is the most prominent intersection, and Waretown is spelled Wiretown.

The Carey-Mathew map of 1834 shows Batsto almost at the shore. This map appears to be quite inaccurate. But it is interesting that there is a town named Bar's Mill that is either Quaker Bridge or possibly Washington. Any idea's?

It is interesting how things change, or that map makers see things differently.

Guy

bruset

12-14-02, 11:27 AM

From my copy of Allaire's Lost Empire:

The terms forge and furnace appear to have been used interchangeably to some extent in Colonial times.

A typical furnace would be twenty feet or more in height, about twenty-four feet across the base, and sixteen feet at the top, tapering upward like a cone or pyramid with the top sliced off. It's function was the reduction of ores to crude pig iron through intense heat. The iron was run off to harden in sand molds.

The smelting process was accomplished by charging the furnace from the top with alternate layers of ore, charcoal, and oyster shells or limestone. The lime combined with ore impurities to make a slag which floated on the top of the refined iron. The iron was tapped off at the bottom and the slag drawn off higher up the side of the furnace every ten hours.

Charcoal was the ideal fuel in the days before anthracite coal came into use and provided superior. Hickory made the best charcoal but apparently any wood at hand was used on occasion. The average furnace used the wood from about 240 acres of land each year.

A forge was a more refined version of the furnace. Pig iron from a furnace, often on the same site, was resmelted and refined into malleable bar iron.

Pig iron could be cast into pots, pans, kettles, firebacks, stoves, and sash weights. But "bar iron" or wrought iron was required for products which had to be pounded into shape and required great strength. Thus tools, wheel rims, and horse shoes were made from this material.

As iron was resmelted in the forge fire, it was beaten with heavy hammers, often weighing five hundred pounds. These were raised by a water wheel and then allowed to fall upon the molten metal. This process removed impurities.

Also found in early iron works were rolling mills, where heavy rollers flattened wrought metal into sheet iron, and slitting mills, which employed mechanical shears to turn out iron rods from which were made nails, wagon tires, and other similar products.

TeeGate

12-14-02, 12:15 PM

So basically Hampton Forge was a newer or better model than the others?

Woohoo, no longer an Explorer!

Guy

bruset

12-14-02, 12:59 PM

I think Hampton Furnace was probably both a furnace and a forge.

Like the book said, the terms are two different things, but people used them interchangably.

It makes sense to have both on one site, since a lot of people would be interested in finished goods, and it wouldn't make sense for one furnace to make the pig iron and then sell it to another furnace to make wrought iron with it.

Howell Iron Works, however, only had a blast furnace, so they dealt only with pig iron. But Allaire owned other furnaces in New York, which he probably shipped the pigs to to be forged.

bach2yoga

12-14-02, 10:09 PM

Ben,
I tried downloading Mr. Sid-whatever-it-is to view the railroad maps, and then I was prompted to select a program to use to open it.
Any idea? :?
Renee

bruset

12-15-02, 01:35 AM

Renee,

Did you download the Mr. Sid browser plugin?

http://www.lizardtech.com/includes/download.php?p=15&o=1

BarryC

12-15-02, 02:07 AM

Ben,
I tried downloading Mr. Sid-whatever-it-is to view the railroad maps, and then I was prompted to select a program to use to open it.
Any idea? :?
Renee
I'm confused. After downloading the Mr. Sid Viewer you should be able to go to one of those maps and click on it. Then the Mr. Sid Viewer will automatically come up and show the map. What you are saying sounds a bit strange. (what's happening is strange, not you. :mrgreen: ) Was the download of the viewer successful?
Barry

BarryC

12-15-02, 02:14 AM

I downloaded all of the maps from the David Rumsey Collection and put them on a CD, to save the space on my hard drive. They total like 150 mb. I viewed a couple of them, including one that has the words, "extensive tract of pine trees" or something, over the Pine Barrens. I saw Gloucester or Gloucester Furnace on many of them. But unfortunately the files are so huge that after viewing 2 or 3 of them they start showing up as blank images.
It seems to me you would need many gigabytes of RAM in order to view all of them without trouble. I only have 127 mb. I've got all temporary internet files deleted and my history file cleared and so forth. I have to reboot in order to view more of them I think.
Barry

bach2yoga

12-15-02, 08:57 AM

Renee,

Did you download the Mr. Sid browser plugin?

http://www.lizardtech.com/includes/download.php?p=15&o=1

Ben,
Yes, though I'm not sure it was successful. The first time I was prompted to select a program with which to view it. The second time I used the link under the railroad maps I got a security warning that the origin and integrity of the application could not be verified, the certificate used to sign the software was invalid or not trusted.
So I'm trying again, using the link you sent, it's downloading now.
I'll let you know.
Thanks!
Renee

bach2yoga

12-15-02, 10:16 AM

I downloaded it okay, but I'm getting Java security caution about installing and running this program is high risk. Go ahead or no?
Renee

bruset

12-15-02, 11:53 AM

Go ahead and say yes. No risk, no reward. :)

bruset

12-15-02, 11:55 AM

Those maps are really high resolution, so opening up multiple copies would most likely screech your machine to a halt.

My laptop (2ghz Pentium 4, 512mb RAM) even has problems with them sometimes. If I had made them smaller or compressed them, however, they would not be as useful as you'd loose a lot of detail and image quality.

Glad to see everyone's enjoying them, though. :chug:

bach2yoga

12-15-02, 02:40 PM

Ben,
Still having problems. :pop:
Should I move this to general discussion or email you offlist?
Renee

bruset

12-15-02, 02:44 PM

email me.

bobpbx

12-15-02, 09:12 PM

Williamsburg is a new one on me Guy. There is no Forked River (town) there on that map is there? Maybe that is the name is used to be.

Guy[/quote]

TeeGate

12-15-02, 09:18 PM

Bob,

There seems to be many odd town names that I have never heard of. The more I look, the more I notice.

Guy

BarryC

12-16-02, 12:17 AM

Bob,

There seems to be many odd town names that I have never heard of. The more I look, the more I notice.

Guy
Also a lot of town names that Father Beck went looking for that no longer exist, and some we have trouble with now. I did see Calico on at least one of them. I also saw Cumberland on a few of them, and also Gloucester Furnace.
Those Cooks topo maps (#15 and #16) show the lake at Gloucester Furnace and the lake at Weymouth, and also a pond at Speedwell. All of these lakes are gone now, since their dams broke a long time ago.
It's also interesting to see the spelling differences of some towns from one map to another.
#16 also shows the location of Etna Furnace near Head of River.
In fact I saw Farrago Forge on one of them too.
I'm really enjoying them.
My dad was able to open the jpeg maps with his Adobe Acrobat and convert them to PDF's. I tried it with mine and it wouldn't work. I have Acrobat 5.0 like he has. Those maps are the ones I have trouble with.
My computer has a 566 Intel processor, but I don't know which kind. My C drive has a capacity of 14.2 GB, with 11.7 GB free.
My RAM is 127 MB and 65% free, last I looked.
I also have Comcast Highspeed Internet, rather than a conventional modem and dial-up. So downloading from the internet is extremely fast.
Barry

bobpbx

12-16-02, 07:45 AM

Is there a difference between forge and furnace?

Guy, here is a post I did on the old Blanda site:

As I explore throughout the pines and look at the slag scattered around the iron making sites, I have to force myself to remember that a furnace and forge were not only different activities, but were often situated far from each other. I did some research to contrast the two:

The product of a furnace was more crude than a forge. The basic function of the furnace was to heat the raw ore to its melting point, and then to pour the resultant mass into molds to cool. There were molds for cannonballs, stove parts, pots, and kettles.

A forge took the product of the furnace, pig iron, and fired it up again to seperate even more impurities out of the iron. The result was a more refined molten mass of iron, capable of being..."pounded by heavy hammers operated by nearby waterpower...this process removed the excess carbon and other impurities, after which the molten mass was worked into bars...The bars (and wrought iron) could then be worked into tools, horseshoes, and wagon wheels. The forge hammers, usually weighing more than 500 pounds apiece, made a great pounding day and night..(Pierce, 14).

Could you imagine walking out of the woods and encountering that? Or, if you are alone out there when one started up, and you had never heard one before, what would you think it was?...BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM!, the hammers go as you hear the unceasing pounding. Smoke billowing and drifting through the trees and the increasing shouts of men directing each other to...make the fire hotter!, or...hurry up with the charcoal!, or...put out that damn woods fire! (begun by an errant spark).

I often think Batsto would be much more interesting with a working furnace and forge. I would sign up for that duty in an instant. It was a rough and dirty process, but something truly raw yet beautiful about it; taking ore and making something useful that would last.

Heres a trivia question: What local material was used to make the flux, which would help to seperate the impurities and make them rise to the top of the molten mass?

Source of info: (a great book to read if you find this history interesting).

Pierce, Arthur D., "Iron in the Pines", Rutgers University Press, New Brunswick NJ, 1957.

bach2yoga

12-16-02, 08:59 AM

Heres a trivia question: What local material was used to make the flux, which would help to seperate the impurities and make them rise to the top of the molten mass?

Clam shells for both bog iron and glassworks, right?

Here's more trivia:

At Estellville Glass Works, the vegetation differs from the other spring ponds in the area because of the "calcium carbonate, from the limestone used to make glass and from the mortar holding the stones of the Glassworks together, is washed through the sandy soil into the pond. This alters the acidity of the pond area (sweetens it). This raised pH effects the types of plants that grow here. Heal-all (Prunella vulgaris), Jack-in-th-pulpit (Arisaema triphyllum), and Ebony spleenwort (Asplenium platyneuron) will grow here. Sphagnum moss, which is common in southern New Jersey wetlands, prefers acidic conditions and isn't present here." (From the Nature Trail Guide fo Atlantic County Park in Estell Manor)

TeeGate

12-16-02, 09:33 PM

Bob,

In Beck's book he mentions that the hammer was still at Hampton Furnace and it could "never" be removed from the ground. Well, it is long gone or buried either by the state, or a determined vandal. He also mentioned that the mill grinder at Martha would be there forever, and I noticed a house near my mom's has one in their yard.

Thanks for the info. I have Iron in the Pines and will have to read it again. It has been a quarter of a century since I last read it. :roll:

Guy

bobpbx

12-16-02, 11:40 PM

Clam shells for both bog iron and glassworks, right?

I can't sneak anything by you Renee!

JeffD

12-16-02, 11:53 PM

That collection of state topo maps that you put up just a little while ago, Ben, is fantastic! I am tired and just played around a little and was able, by using that neat index, a particular area (Atision) to peruse. I was reluctant to download the others as it seems technically challenging for the technically challenged, and my suspicions were verified by comments by posters. Maps that can be readily indexed and downloaded via any basic computer and software is much needed. This way people like myself don't get bogged down in the machinery and can better spend time on the message.

It's sort of like having the complete works of Guy. :D 8)

bruset

12-17-02, 12:19 AM

yeah, i may try to see about converting the other maps to jpg format, but that will most likely make the files a lot larger to download. plus renee was the only person with a problem. :)

bach2yoga

12-17-02, 03:15 PM

yeah, i may try to see about converting the other maps to jpg format, but that will most likely make the files a lot larger to download. plus renee was the only person with a problem. :)

:P
I think you are right about it being AOL browser--I did download the other plugin you recommended, but every time I try to use it the computer freezes.
I have been able to access the other maps, though.
Thanks, I appreciate the help. 8)
Renee

bruset

12-17-02, 03:47 PM

bruset

12-17-02, 05:52 PM

The conversion is done, but unless you have a fast connection the files will take forever to download. They average around 20mb each.

However, you won't need any special software to view them.

TeeGate

12-17-02, 05:59 PM

Without high speed it will be a problem. Also, the file still had the .php on the end when finished, which is easily fixed by changing it. Also, when using Netscape on the Mac is informs you that it can't be displayed because of errors. That is a generic message it always says when there is a PC Mac conflict. By holding down the Option key when clicking on the link starts the download. As I mentioned though, the file is named with the .php which caused me some confusion at that point.

Guy

bruset

12-17-02, 10:11 PM

Regarding the file size, there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I'm either damned if I do or damned if I don't. The maps were in .SID format to make them small enough for modem users to download, but people were either afraid to load the viewer or unable to get it working. So at least in JPG it will be readable by everybody. I can't make everybody happy, and right now I am content to leave the files the way that they are. It took me three hours of very tedious typing last night to get those topo maps online, and another hour and a half today to get the maps from SID to TIFF to JPG. I'm taking a break from it for a while!

As for the .php extension, when you click on the link it calls a script that tracks how many times a file has been downloaded. This is useful if you want to go and see what file is the most popular, etc. So the script runs, looks in the database, sees what file you want to download, and serves the file.

The software that runs this site, Postnuke, really wasn't designed to serve JPG images out of it's download area. So that's why when you click on the link it will just display in your browser, and then you save from there, rather than get the file and have the option to download it. I could change that by compressing all of the files into individual ZIP files, but then I would have to re-upload about 60 or so maps, and retype the file name and file size. I will probably do this sometime this weekend.

Sorry to sound bitter, but I am getting a little burnt out from all of this.

TeeGate

12-17-02, 10:31 PM

Ben,

I was not complaining, just commenting. I was watching as you were posting them and saw how long you were spending on them. We all know you put quite a bit of time into this and I appreciate it. I am sure others do also.

Guy

bruset

12-17-02, 11:09 PM

Guy,

I understand. I've been in a craptastic mood for the last few days. Sorry to be oversensitive. :)

-ben

BarryC

12-17-02, 11:29 PM

I am going to convert the files to JPG so that you won't need any special software to read them. This will probably be the best - and easiest - way of make sure everyone can access these maps.

The conversion is done, but unless you have a fast connection the files will take forever to download. They average around 20mb each.

However, you won't need any special software to view them.

Sorry to say this, but I much preferred the Mr. Sid files and the DJVu files. I love the viewers. My computer has no problem with any of those maps using those viewers. But I did have a big problem with those JPEGs. I could only view 2 or 3 of them . Then after that I had to reboot in order to see more of them, even though I've got them all downloaded. And the 14 mb map I could not view at all. It's downloaded, but won't show on the screen. It just shows up as all white.
Also, as I said previously, my dad was able to view the JPEGs with his Adobe Acrobat 5.0, yet I cannot. I don't know why that is. When he viewed them with his Acrobat it converted them to PDF's which can be viewed similarly to Mr. Sids and DJVu's. If I can be successful with that, I'll be happy.
Thanks for all your work on those :P ,
Barry

BarryC

12-17-02, 11:33 PM

Ben,
I just realized you said the map files that you converted to JPEGs will average about 20 mb each. That means I won't be able to view any of them. I couldn't view that one that's 14 mb. You need extraordinary amounts of RAM to view those huge files. I have a lot, but not nearly as much as you.
Maybe I'm sad over nothing. Later on I'll try to download one of them and see what happens.
Thanks again,
Barry

JeffD

12-17-02, 11:50 PM

The NJ topo maps downloaded rather quickly. And I am quite impatient!

The only technical things I could understand was the JPG and the adobe conversion to PDF. I don't understand all the inner workings but the terms ring a bell. I downloaded adobe 5.1 from the Pine Barrens Commission site and it seems to help me in my endevors. I understand that adobe translates computer language, so that files are interchangeable. Much of what you folks are discussing is greek to me though. :?

bruset

12-18-02, 12:52 AM

Yeah, unfortunately the JPG versions do eat up a lot of memory when they load. This is unavoidable, since they are really high resolution images.

The files that were in SID (or DJVU) format came to me that way. Unfortunately I don't have the money to spend on the software to create those SID files. Since most new maps will be coming to me in either TIF or JPG format, it's best if I offer everything as JPG.

I could resize all of the maps to make them smaller, but you'll loose detail and resolution, not to mention that I have 200 maps already, and I don't want to spend the time to do that (remember I don't make any money off of any of this). It's bad enough that I have to ZIP each of these files, which will keep me busy for this weekend coming up.

Memory is really cheap these days. You might want to consider upgrading (you could bump up to 512mb for around $100) which would help you not only with this site, but with your other applications, etc.

bruset

12-18-02, 11:24 AM

Update: I was looking at the larger maps (the Cook topo maps specifically) and found that I can cut the resolution by 50% and still give you a really nice map. The file sizes should drop to around 5MB each which will still require a decent amount of RAM to open and view the image, but far less than what was needed before.

Also, not all of the JPGs are as large. The Rumsey maps for example are all around 1-5MB each. So I'm shooting for maps to be within 1-5MB each, and certainly under 10MB if I can get it that low and still keep the map usable.

Expect the map section to be in a state of flux while I update everything again. But when I am done this should really be usable for everybody and be a handy research tool.

TeeGate

12-18-02, 05:46 PM

Ben,

You are spending quite a bit of time on these, and you should think about yourself first. Don't get burnt out over all of us. We will still be here whenever you have something to download.

Guy

bruset

12-19-02, 12:11 PM

Ben,

You are spending quite a bit of time on these, and you should think about yourself first. Don't get burnt out over all of us. We will still be here whenever you have something to download.

Guy

I zipped & resized the maps. They should all be available now. It actually didn't take much time since I just hacked the database and changed .JPG to .ZIP.

The file sizes should be right, or close to being right.

JeffD

12-19-02, 10:33 PM

Good job, Ben! I just downloaded a few file-maps from the NJ Topographical map into zip files, which are now on my desktop. I like the idea of starting with a small scale and then zooming in to get more detail. I checked out some of the downloaded fires more than others. I looked for the Friendship bog, which we visited, on the Chatsworth map. I think I may be able to find this area. I used the Atsion map as a guide for a planned hike I saw on a PDF file I had downloaded some time ago from somewhere. Funny thing happened. When I tried to download the Pinebarren Hikes file months ago, I couldn't find it and just wrote it off as an unsuccessful download. After I downloaded Adobe 5.1 from the Pine Barrens Commission site a few weeks ago, this file magically appeared on my desktop! Anyway, I "toggled" back and forth between the Atsion map, which I had magnified enough to see the sand roads, etc. that were referenced in the directions for the hike.

I may take this hike in the near future. It's in an area I'm familiar with. The hike takes you from the railroad tracks that cross Quaker Bridge Road, to the first sand road you come to as you're walking towards Chatsworth on the RR tracks. There's a short sidetrip down to Springer's Brook for lunch and then you follow a sand road to Lower Forge. On the Atsion USGS map, it looks like the sand road stops at the Basto River. Maybe this is where that Un-Bridge which you described on the PBE board while back, Guy, was located. The Lower Forge Wilderness Campground is on the other side of the Basto, so I guess Lower Forge is on both sides of the river. I've always thought of Lower Forge as the campsite, just on one side of the Basto.

I'm amazed that I could download these files. I remember when I had to use a dedicated computer-word processing system at work, and had trouble. On different occasions I had to get someone in the know to "rescue" me. Some years after that experience, when I was applying for jobs someone asked me what computer systems/software I was familiar with. I said "the kind you put a disk in." When asked if I had used menus, I responded "only at restaurants."

JeffD

12-20-02, 04:56 PM

For the record, that Pine Barrens Hikes PDF file that I tried to download several months ago magically appeared when I opened "my documents" after I downloaded Adobe 5.1 Acrobat Reader.

I also checked out the SANDY RIDGE to PINE CREST Pine Barrens Hike on the Pine Barrens Hikes file, which, like the others, referred me to a USGS map, in this case, Chatsworth. Looking at the Chatsworth map I downloaded from this site, I was again able to use it with the Pine Barrens Hike file. This hike starts on Carranza Road, about 2.3 miles from the RR tracks (or 2.5 miles from the monument), going toward Friendship and you take a sand road on the left side of the road (when you face towards Friendship), along the Shane Branch, to an open body of water, to Pine Crest, along the RR tracks and to Sandy Ridge. I think the hike starts in the vicinity of the bog we walked around on our outing before last.

It only took a few minutes to download each file. I guess I have a fast connection (56K).

bruset

12-20-02, 05:28 PM

There are even more maps up now. 316 historic and topo maps online on one site. :)

TeeGate

12-20-02, 05:39 PM

Ben,

Nice job on the main logo with the Jersey Devil and your site name. I've been meaning to mention that but neglected to. :)

Guy

bruset

12-20-02, 05:53 PM

Thanks. That's my "print" logo that I made when I first brought the site online.

I was kicking around the idea of having some t-shirts made and that logo would look pretty good on them, I think.

I need to get a large format printer and print out some of these panoramic maps. They'd look REALLY nice framed in my house.

TeeGate

12-20-02, 07:07 PM

If those panoramic maps were in tiff format originally, use the tiff for having them printed.

I would buy a t-shirt.

Guy

bruset

12-21-02, 12:31 AM

the panoramic maps were in .SID format, at 4x the resolution that they are in now. i shrunk them down and converted them to jpg for the site.

BarryC

12-22-02, 10:59 AM

the panoramic maps were in .SID format, at 4x the resolution that they are in now. i shrunk them down and converted them to jpg for the site.
Just out of curiosity, where did you find them, in the Mr. Sid format?
Also see my email from a few minutes ago. You can get those maps on Ebay easily. For example, right now there are 5 1865 Egg Harbor maps and maybe 6 or 7 1924 Egg Harbor maps on Ebay, ranging in price from $15 to $25.
There is also a company that just sells them: http://www.historicpanoramicmaps.com/
Thanks for all your hard work here,
Barry

bruset

12-22-02, 11:02 AM

The panoramic maps came from the Library of Congress.

Rdvh

01-27-03, 08:08 PM

I am looking for Maps of the old forgotten towns in the pine barrens where can i find them?

TeeGate

01-27-03, 08:29 PM

I am looking for Maps of the old forgotten towns in the pine barrens where can i find them?

Ben has supplied a link at the top of this page to many of the maps you are looking for. It is the Map Archive link. Many of these maps mention the towns that you are looking for. You must remember that they probably will only get you in the general area, and you will have to find the exact location of the town. You have an option to ask here on the boards, or search them out for yourself. I would suggest the maps at this link.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&r eq=viewsdownload&sid=3

You will need to install the DjVu Plug-in to view them. which can also be downloaded on that page.

Guy