The Plane Boss!

bobpbx

Piney
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Oct 25, 2002
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Pines; Bamber area
This is odd. I'm looking at Cape May County on aerials, planning for visits this coming season. You know those planes we always see in aerials, and we always say they were just put there by the manager of the aerial? Well, this one has contrails. Below is a closer look, and I think I'm less than 500 feet (?) in altitude judging by the width of the power line.

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RednekF350

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Feb 20, 2004
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This is odd. I'm looking at Cape May County on aerials, planning for visits this coming season. You know those planes we always see in aerials, and we always say they were just put there by the manager of the aerial? Well, this one has contrails. Below is a closer look, and I think I'm less than 500 feet (?) in altitude judging by the width of the power line.

View attachment 24426

View attachment 24427
Is it near the CM Airport Bob? Could have been ascending or descending.
 

Boyd

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You know those planes we always see in aerials, and we always say they were just put there by the manager of the aerial?

I don't understand... are you saying that the planes we often see in aerials are not really there?

Is it near the CM Airport Bob? Could have been ascending or descending.

That looks like a pretty big plane. If it were an executive jet, then I think the engines would look larger in relation to the rest of the plane. Can the Cape May Airport handle big planes? Their longest runway is only a mile long
 

Boyd

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Found it

https://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat...g=-74.87938125352959&z=17&type=satellite&gpx=

If you extend a line in the direction they're heading, it ends up very close to Atlantic City International Airport. So, maybe they are on approach to there? That same vector also points towards the NYC airports (JFK, LGA, EWR). Also, I don't think you would see contrails at 500 ft. altitude, they appear at high altitude where the air is cold. Not sure how we could estimate how high the plane it is, what is your logic for that, based on the power lines?
 
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Boyd

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If you look at that imagery directly on Google Maps, it is attributed to Airbus/Maxar. They use satellites in orbits somewhere around 300 miles high to capture their imagery. I don't think you could tell the difference between a plane at 500 feet, 5000 feet or 50,000 feet from that distance.
 

bobpbx

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The way I figured it was 500 feet or so, how could I determine those poles in the powerline unless I was that close? If you zoom out, you cannot see them.
 

bobpbx

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It must have something to do with the way the photo is viewed. Even if you zoom in under 1,000 feet, everything is still in the photo, even if it's at a high altitude.

Boyd, we have mentioned this many, many times over the years. You likely are just getting old and having memory issues. :eek: :)
 
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Boyd

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Yeah, I'm 75 and not getting any younger. Can you refresh my memory, and link to some of those threads where "we always say they were just put there by the manager of the aerial"? The threads I recall were all real airplanes that just happened to be photographed. I think it would be tough to take a series of photos on the East coast without capturing some planes inadvertently. I don't know what a "plane boss" or a "manager of the aerial" is. What are those? Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, I really don't understand what you're saying. Must be my "memory issues".

I studied art/design in 1971 where we learned measured perspective the old way, with t-squares and drawing boards (we didn't have computers). The size of an object at any given distance is just a matter of geometry, the renaissance artists figured this out and paintings became more realistic as a result.

Let's take an example, viewed from the side, (on a flat earth in a two-dimensional universe, to keep it simple :clint:). The red rectangles are airplanes and the black line is the earth. One airplane is parked on the runway and the other is flying exactly above it. If we extend lines up, the flying plane takes the same amount of space as the parked plane, regardless of how high the plane is flying because the blue lines are parallel. This is an orthographic (straight line) view.

ortho.png


But now, let's consider an aerial photograph of the same thing, taken from another airplane (the green dot) flying above the others. In this case, we follow the light rays from the objects to the camera and it's completely different. The flying plane will appear much larger than the plane on the ground. This is a perspective view, where things get smaller based on their distance from the camera. It would be very difficult to know the real size of that plane by comparing it to objects on the ground. We would have some sense of how high it's flying though because it will be larger when it is higher (closer to the camera).
persp.png


But here's the thing: a satellite photo (like Google maps uses) is not like the second example, it's actually very close to the first (orthographic) example because the satellite is so high compared to the plane. If you move the green dot 300 miles up, the sides of the triangle will be nearly parallel. The two planes should be almost the same size no matter how high one is flying. That's why I don't think you can estimate the height of the plane in this case.

The way I figured it was 500 feet or so, how could I determine those poles in the powerline unless I was that close? If you zoom out, you cannot see them.

I don't think that has anything to do with the size of the plane. The ability to see the powerline/poles is simply a function of the resolution of the imagery. When you zoom out, you decrease the resolution. Specifically, when you zoom all the way in, each pixel in the image represents one foot (zoom level 19). As you zoom out, each "click" doubles that. So, if you zoom to level 15 each pixel represents 16 feet and you won't be able to resolve something small like a power pole. Yet the plane will remain the same relative size when compared to objects on the ground, regardless of your zoom setting.

OK, that's about all I can remember, due to my "memory issues". :D
 

bobpbx

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Oh gee, I forgot you had such a very thin skin Boyd, like the membrane of a dragonfly wing. Ask some of the older guys about the "the plane boss!" comment, they'll know.

The plane aerial comment was directed to all the older forum members. Some used to say they were put there in case someone used that aerial for a business purpose without paying for it, and then the developer of the aerial would call them out for illegal use by pointing out the plane, which only they knew about.

I did read your explanation above, and thanks, it makes sense.
 

Boyd

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Well, I did use a smiley. :D

I don't buy that theory about putting fake airplanes into aerials, sorry, makes no sense to me. It's true that cartographers intentionally put mistakes on maps in the old days to identify them (or so I've read), but a photograph is completely different. Should be easy enough to demonstrate ownership based on the details. Aerial phtographs are going to be unique and easily identifiable based on date, time of day, cars in parking lots, waves in the ocean, etc.

But now you've got me interested. For you fellow older forum members: do you think Google puts fake airplanes into their satellite photos? Did they ever? This old guy says "no". :)
 
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