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  1. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Ben, thank you for your hospitality. Folks know how to email me if they would like to continue this in the tradition of rational, polite discussion.
  2. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    I don't know, John. I have a hard time understanding why one or more of the clubs don't just contact a real estate agent and tell them what they want. I think if you are leaving yourself at the mercy of the state, you are bound to be dealing with a long wait. What does the state ever get done in...
  3. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Okay, so the numbers of loud dirt bikes and ATV's are going to slowly decrease over time? That would definitely be a good trend.
  4. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Are you saying that any new technology that generates any new hobby is acceptable? And if not, how would you judge the degree of acceptability of a new hobby? I don't think you have any evidence to make that claim, but supposing it were true, what would that have to do with any of the points...
  5. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    I think we need to talk about specific places. Where would you recommend we put these parks?
  6. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Sure, it's all about balance. Hypothetically speaking, balance is a wonderful thing, but that doesn't get us anywhere. Unless someone proposes a specific place for a park, it's impossible say what "balance" might mean.
  7. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Not sure what you mean by the first two points. The land is both yours and mine, but that, by itself, doesn't imply anything about exactly what ought to be permissible on that land. Give me a specific reference within post #1 and I will try to respond. FOR THE REST OF THIS POST, PLEASE NOTICE...
  8. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    I tend to agree with Ben here, but maybe for a different reason. I would think that the noise of repeated traffic on these plow lines would be more of an issue for other users and wildlife than the width.
  9. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    I think with all these questions, we have to look at specific situations rather than hypothetical. But I believe that with most sand mined areas, the desired material has been extracted, and the owners are supposed to return the area (to the extent possible) to a natural condition. As for...
  10. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    How many legal venues of what size would be required? Do you have any specific places in mind? I agree that the OHV fuel tax is an important issue. If that money were to be applied to a piece of property, what do you think it could buy?
  11. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Medfor Piney: "as far as a park meeting the CMP and all, ... I think that converting an old strip mine to a park is completely reasonable..." The devil's always in the details. It really is impossible to generalize, because so many of these old mines have become breeding ponds for T&E...
  12. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Medford Piney: "... I guess I would like to see opportunities for non-street legal bikes, if managed properly within the state forest." If by "non-street-legal bikes" you mean unregistered and untagged, how could they be managed properly? One of the biggest issues for enforcement is that you...
  13. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Trying to catch up here. 1. Okay, as for acres impacted by ORV's, I don't know how the DEP arrived at that figure. Has anyone investigated? 2. Not clear on the 2 stroke engine issue. What's that all about? The amount of air pollution? 3. The severity of the situation is undoubtedly a...
  14. R

    Brew your own beer?

    Sheesh, Bob, :rolleyes:if we :guinness:, and start getting :words:, somebody's bound to mention ORV's:jeffd:. We might as well all plan on getting soaked:dance:.
  15. R

    Brew your own beer?

    No, I'm flying by the seat of my pants. I'm like the box of rocks when it comes to math and science. I have read and re-read certain portions of Palmer's book, and I just don't get it. I definitely need to get educated though, before I try to do an all grain porter or stout. I checked out the...
  16. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Medford, thanks for your detailed answer. I think we are on the same page with most of this. Here's my feedback...
  17. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    I'll second that.
  18. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    Here are a couple of points that I think are important to notice for future discussion. 1. I will do everything I can to make sure any future PPA statements are more sensitive to the distinction between illegal and legal riding. In return, I would ask that riders (or those sympathetic to...
  19. R

    Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

    No, I'm hip. At PPA, we have been accustomed to using the term ORV, because the main problem we are trying to address is people going off the road. As I have said in the past, nobody is objecting to Jeep traffic or even monster truck traffic so long as they are traveling down a road, following...