5 charged with setting bonfire that ignited forest fire that burned 11K acres of N.J. Pinelands

Teegate

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As far as I know It was on Spring Hill which is owned by Haines.
 

1Jerseydevil

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The bonfire was on private land? That's interesting.
It said "escaped private land" Well, that gravel pit, the one I think it is, was thought to be Haines until he had his land resurveyed.
The property lines were relocated approx. 300' North and about 600' to the West from the old lines. You can see the straight line boundary just to the North. Spring Hill is at the top of the pit and it is quite a nice view. I'm sure many have been there. If that's where the bonfire was, then yes, it was on private land. If it was in the pit itself then it was in part of Penn forest.
There is another pit just to the West and that is entirely Haines. His property line is actually Lost Lane rd, but he moves his property lines about 20' onto his property as a buffer.
 
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1Jerseydevil

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What do you mean by that? Do you think he thought he owned it but really does not? Do you know who does?
You replied before I was able to correct myself. https://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.76769215075598&lng=-74.44618541400908&z=18&type=hybrid&gpx=
This is the overlook on top of Spring Hill. Haines new, actually about 10+ years now can be seen just a little more North. So, this is a "nice" place to party because of the view. That is entirely on public land so the news is wrong. My club has an exclusive relationship with Haines and has maps of his property. The old property line is just at the top of the pit and believed that Haines owned Spring Hill, or the overlook. To the south of the pit, you can see the property lines of Penn State. Haines cut the lines which moved everything. Yes, I know what I'm talking about and yes up until the resurvey it was Haines and if he didn't do the survey it would still be considered Haines.

Haines is the largest property owner in the general area. DeMarco was the largest. A man has got to know what he owns and doesn't, not guess at it. He owns property in different townships. Come tax time every township wanted what's due and some townships were claiming overlapping property lines. To put an end to this he spent a great deal of money and had his property resurveyed. Whenever and whoever made the original surveys was unbelievably off. I think Guy can attest how inaccurate some of the old surveys in the pines are. Haines probably purchased the land based on these old surveys.
 
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Teegate

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I have the text version of the complete Haines survey. However, there are major errors in it and because of that I can't proceed beyond a certain point or I would be able to say yes or no from my point of view. The state tax records show the owner of that pit to be "unknown."
 

1Jerseydevil

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I have the text version of the complete Haines survey. However, there are major errors in it and because of that I can't proceed beyond a certain point or I would be able to say yes or no from my point of view. The state tax records show the owner of that pit to be "unknown."
Guy, I think we talked about this, "unknown or null" The state maps which are dependent on the township records are grossly not updated. For example, a lot of land that was previously Sim Place, which is now Haines shows null or unknown.I'm sure Haines gave the townships copies of his land including Sim Place, why hasn't it been recorded? I'm sure the towns collect taxes.
 

1Jerseydevil

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That little white spot is an overlook? I never knew that.
Yes, it is, if you've not been there it's worth the trip on a clear day. Haines Sr used to sit in his truck for hours just looking over the forest, so I'm told.
 

1Jerseydevil

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FYI, this is the old boundary lines for Penn State https://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.761622342067&lng=-74.45088464420317&z=18&type=hybrid&gpx= and this is the "new" and current property line for Penn State thanks to Haines.
and this is Haines property line about 20' off Lost Lane rd, but the actual property line IS lost Lane rd. Haines owns land to the North to Long Causeway, West to Sooy rd, a small piece across Sooy rd and to the East to Red rd and across Red rd. There are parcels, of course, he doesn't own, but he owns a lot in the general area.
 
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bobpbx

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When we did that Papoose Branch explore, we came very close to it, and walked right by it.


Guy, I never saw this video. I don't know why. Either that, or I'm too old to remember it. But I remember us doing this clearly.

 
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Boyd

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Spring Hill is at the top of the pit and it is quite a nice view. I'm sure many have been there.
The USGS says that Spring Hill is here, which is nowhere near most people think it is.
https://online.boydsmaps.com/#17/39.77345/-74.45515/pinesHD

springHillBoyd.jpg


The USGS 24k topo shows it as that whole hillside
https://online.boydsmaps.com/#15/39.7748/-74.4525/pines1999

springHill24k.jpg


The historical maps show it in slightly different places. It is here in 1899
https://online.boydsmaps.com/#14/39.7743/-74.4463/pines1899

springHill1899.jpg


And here it is in 1949 - which is about the same place as the contemporary location shown on my Map of the Pines HD
https://online.boydsmaps.com/#15/39.7733/-74.4536/pines1949

springHill1949.jpg


To summarize, most people think Spring Hill is at the "former gravel pit" shown at the bottom right of this image (I always thought so too), but the USGS says it is the marked location at the top left.

twoSpringHills.jpg


To really understand, you need to view it in three dimensions! :)
https://lidar.boydsmaps.com/#x111y044/shader/-332/348/623/-109/1/346/1255/294/-980/100/2.5/3d

springHill3d.jpg
 

bobpbx

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I always knew where it was. The gravel pit is often cited because it's the main representation of the area. I had a PBX exploration that would go to the actual point on the topo, but knowing how hard it is to beat through the pygmy pines in that area, I decided to not do it. All the guys would be pissed at me.
 

1Jerseydevil

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I always knew where it was. The gravel pit is often cited because it's the main representation of the area. I had a PBX exploration that would go to the actual point on the topo, but knowing how hard it is to beat through the pygmy pines in that area, I decided to not do it. All the guys would be pissed at me.
Bob, have you ever been here? https://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.77107783650873&lng=-74.44335472313464&z=19&type=nj2015&gpx=
There's an old enduro trail going over the top. Unfortunately, the trees are large and there is nothing to see. Maybe now you can see a little because of the fire, but the satellite map looks like the fire didn't burn much there. Click on the topo to see the steepness.

Boyd, so Spring Hill is more of a range than the actual hill? Yes, I always thought the gravel pit was the actual Spring Hill, especially since the road is named Spring Hill rd. Any idea of why the topo doesn't show the gravel pit?

Bob, on your hike, were you on Spring Hill rd on your way back? While the rd is not the advantage point, I'm surprised nobody noticed the elevation. I guess you had everybody beat into submission and all were looking for the tailgate party at the conclusion, :smug:
 
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Boyd

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Boyd, so Spring Hill is more of a range than the actual hill? Yes, I always thought the gravel pit was the actual Spring Hill, especially since the road is named Spring Hill rd. Any idea of why the topo doesn't show the gravel pit?
I show the gravel pit on my Map of the Pines HD

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#17/39.76668/-74.44895/pinesHD

Screen Shot 2020-04-17 at 1.27.54 PM.png


It is also shown on the USGS 24k topo, but that area is so cluttered that it isn't obvious. Look closely and you will see the "crossed shovels" icon and also a small blue-tinted area that denotes the clearing. The grid line and the road are right on top of it, so it's very hard to see. That is why I make my maps at a scale of 1:3000 instead of 1:24000 like the USGS. That is 8x the scale, but 64 times more data (8 x 8). :)

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#16/39.7667/-74.4489/pines1999

pit.png


The USGS 24k topo does imply it is a "range" by the way it's labelled. However, the Geographic Name Information System (GNIS) includes a "summit" for Spring Hill, which is what I used on my map. If you look at the LIDAR imagery however, it does look like a "range". Of course, anyone but us Flatlanders would get a good laugh about calling that a mountain range. :)

https://lidar.boydsmaps.com/#x111y044/shader/-109/573/346/-109/1/346/1255/294/-980/100/2.5/2d

range.jpg
 
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bobpbx

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Bob, have you ever been here? https://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.77107783650873&lng=-74.44335472313464&z=19&type=nj2015&gpx=
There's an old enduro trail going over the top. Unfortunately, the trees are large and there is nothing to see. Maybe now you can see a little because of the fire, but the satellite map looks like the fire didn't burn much there. Click on the topo to see the steepness.
Bob, on your hike, were you on Spring Hill rd on your way back? While the rd is not the advantage point, I'm surprised nobody noticed the elevation. I guess you had everybody beat into submission and all were looking for the tailgate party at the conclusion, :smug:
JD, I posted this link of our trip report last night. Open up and look at it. We were right near there, and yes, we knew our elevation was steep. Did you look at the video? We were just going up from the western branch at that point. See thumbnail.

 

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bobpbx

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I know I'm gonna hear from Sammy on this, but the articles say the fire burned for a month. I find that difficult to believe. I don't think you should include smoldering stumps.