900 homes to be built

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
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I may be wrong but I think that place has some rare and endangered plants growing there.

Guy
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
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Guy, I know of two threatened species which I've seen there. I've submitted forms to the state on my sightings. This is a old case resurfacing now with the excuse that it will be good for the economy. There are many groups against this, hopefully it doesn't go through this time.
 

tom m

Explorer
Jan 9, 2006
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Hammonton,NJ.
There are a few developments like that in Gloucester county where they built several hundred homes and " preserved" a large portion for nature due to it being wet lands and then the next municipality over built right up to the wetlands . So where is the preservation now? All developers are doing when they do that is creating private parks for the development that's all, there not preserving anything!
 

mike242424

Explorer
Feb 17, 2007
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Tabernacle
i totally agree with yout tom there saving a tenth of what they destroyed which in my opinion means next to nothing if its surrounded by concrete.
 

glowordz

Explorer
Jan 19, 2009
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SC
www.gloriarepp.com
I keep thinking about what TeeGate said when I asked about cycle racing:

It is not the motorcycles we have to worry about, it is the homes and business that are being built.

And whenever I see something like this and read your posts about endangered species and "preservation" double-talk, it makes me . . . words fail . . . :argh:

--G
 

jdragon130

New Member
Oct 7, 2008
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Gloucester County
If you have ever visited this spot you know how awesome and precious it is. It's hard to imagine you are even still in South Jersey. If I had to choose one place to be developed that I have visited, this one would be last on my list. There are many different kinds of people that rely on it for recreation. The record bass for NJ was caught there, and many people go off roading (whether you are against it or not, they are still people that would not want it developed). It is an awesome spot to go kayaking, you can even get lost, there aren't many spots in South Jersey other than the pines that you can get lost at. While I can't recognize plants for the life of me I have run into botanists while hiking through the woods. I think I'd honestly lay down in front of a bull dozer if it came to that.
 

Spung-Man

Explorer
Jan 5, 2009
932
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Richland, NJ
loki.stockton.edu
ghosts of posts-past, ...and future?

With access to economic stimulus funding, the local entrepreneurs could soon fulfill their dreams of fast-tracking Smart Growth into the Pinelands National Reserve. Although the current recovery plan purports to encourage green collar pursuits, I worry that public funding will soon be used for clustering infrastructure in Pinelands Villages and Rural Development zones – perpetuating the very same speculative growth model that got us into this mess in the first place. If the above course of action is unsettling, be sure to make local governing bodies and regulatory agencies like the Pinelands Commission aware of your concerns.
 

PancoastDrifter

Explorer
Dec 7, 2008
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With access to economic stimulus funding, the local entrepreneurs could soon fulfill their dreams of fast-tracking Smart Growth into the Pinelands National Reserve. Although the current recovery plan purports to encourage green collar pursuits, I worry that public funding will soon be used for clustering infrastructure in Pinelands Villages and Rural Development zones – perpetuating the very same speculative growth model that got us into this mess in the first place. If the above course of action is unsettling, be sure to make local governing bodies and regulatory agencies like the Pinelands Commission aware of your concerns.
+1

Robert Frosts', "Nothing Gold Can Stay", comes to mind. All exponential growth models have a tragic end. Our country has not been around long enough to see this type of cycle through (except maybe buffalo furs).

I wrote a letter to the Pinelands Commission when they proposed building on the old dump in Stafford. The reply I received was less than encouraging as to the purpose and intent of the Commission. That body has been usurped by land and tax special interests.
 

turtle

Explorer
Feb 4, 2009
635
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a village...in the pines
I take offense to the developers insinuating that new ratables equate to lower taxes. I have never witnessed a development built that affected the taxes of a community to decrease. In the early 80's we lived in Galloway and fought the (pre-approved :ninja:) development of the Hovnanian communities that were "guaranteed" not to increase services, raise taxes, or have an impact on the documented eagle's nest nearby :pigfly: There was never a chance to be heard.....it was already a done deal. Within two years of completed construction our taxes spiked and we said bye-bye......
I don't trust the state on this one either regardless of their present statements.....they are too desperate for $$$.
 

maxwellandson

Explorer
Feb 23, 2008
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The great Metropolitan of Laureldale N.J.
when I read articles like that they make me it disgust me. Even though I am a builder there is nothing more I hate then seeing developement's. It seems they look for some of the most prestine land and doze it under, preserve a small piece or put together a golfcourse and call that open space. They tried to put in some 900 homes here not to long ago between 322 and the street I live on, thank god they shot that down and the y only built a handfull on 322.
 

misclaims

Explorer
Oct 10, 2008
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little egg harbor
I take offense to the developers insinuating that new ratables equate to lower taxes. I have never witnessed a development built that affected the taxes of a community to decrease. In the early 80's we lived in Galloway and fought the (pre-approved :ninja:) development of the Hovnanian communities that were "guaranteed" not to increase services, raise taxes, or have an impact on the documented eagle's nest nearby :pigfly: There was never a chance to be heard.....it was already a done deal. Within two years of completed construction our taxes spiked and we said bye-bye......
I don't trust the state on this one either regardless of their present statements.....they are too desperate for $$$.
and that, my friends, is the ratable myth. Preservation is a better way to prevent tax hikes than out of control development........
 

Spung-Man

Explorer
Jan 5, 2009
932
569
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Richland, NJ
loki.stockton.edu
who's economic stimulus?

when I read articles like that they make me it disgust me. Even though I am a builder there is nothing more I hate then seeing developement's. It seems they look for some of the most prestine land and doze it under, preserve a small piece or put together a golfcourse and call that open space. They tried to put in some 900 homes here not to long ago between 322 and the street I live on, thank god they shot that down and the y only built a handfull on 322.
Maxwellandson,

Housing subdivisions are no friend of small homebuilders or residents. Clustering, Smart Growth, and Redevelopment are all Pinelands Commission endorsed mechanisms that will make it even more likely that mega-developers will find it profitable to exploit the Pinelands National Reserve. Their expanded presence in no way helps to preserve, protect, and enhance the natural and cultural resources of the Pinelands National Reserve.

If we must stimulate economic development in the Pinelands, then at least do it in a manner that benefits Pinelands residents, not politicians. Clustering projects should include provisions that encourage the hiring of local contractors who buy from local purveyors, hire local laborers, and keep the revenue stream flowing within the community. Small builders don’t have to bulldoze every tree in site to turn a profit, and are flexible enough to incorporate green methodologies.

“The regulations and standards it [ i.e., the Pinelands Comprehensive Management Plan] contains are designed to promote orderly development of the Pinelands so as to preserve and protect the significant and unique natural, ecological, agricultural, archaeological, historical, scenic, cultural and recreational resources of the Pinelands” (Pinelands Commission). Wouldn’t it make more sense to entrust this critical job to local stakeholders? I finish with one particularly salient point – small businesses can’t afford teams of lawyers to circumvent Pinelands rules and regulations.

Spung-Man
 

maxwellandson

Explorer
Feb 23, 2008
395
10
18
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The great Metropolitan of Laureldale N.J.
Maxwellandson,

Housing subdivisions are no friend of small homebuilders or residents. Clustering, Smart Growth, and Redevelopment are all Pinelands Commission endorsed mechanisms that will make it even more likely that mega-developers will find it profitable to exploit the Pinelands National Reserve. Their expanded presence in no way helps to preserve, protect, and enhance the natural and cultural resources of the Pinelands National Reserve.

If we must stimulate economic development in the Pinelands, then at least do it in a manner that benefits Pinelands residents, not politicians. Clustering projects should include provisions that encourage the hiring of local contractors who buy from local purveyors, hire local laborers, and keep the revenue stream flowing within the community. Small builders don’t have to bulldoze every tree in site to turn a profit, and are flexible enough to incorporate green methodologies.

“The regulations and standards it [ i.e., the Pinelands Comprehensive Management Plan] contains are designed to promote orderly development of the Pinelands so as to preserve and protect the significant and unique natural, ecological, agricultural, archaeological, historical, scenic, cultural and recreational resources of the Pinelands” (Pinelands Commission). Wouldn’t it make more sense to entrust this critical job to local stakeholders? I finish with one particularly salient point – small businesses can’t afford teams of lawyers to circumvent Pinelands rules and regulations.

Spung-Man
I knew that I would like You!
 

mudboy dave

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
949
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atco
opentrailsnj.org
yet another place i used to go with my trucks a while back and was accused of destroying a habitat. I guess I was wrong when I asked a man, "what about when the time comes where homes are put here"? I was told"that will never happen". As much as I hate the idea of Homes going up and another useless golf course, I still would love to run into that guy today with this article in my hand:bang:
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,369
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camden county
I may be reading too deep but......Is ruining habitat through illegal ORV use justified by the idea that land will be developed in the future? I'm not neccesarily directing this at you Dave as I've heard other people say this to me before in regards to illegal wildlife collection and I don't really understand the rationale. Some people have said to me NJ is going to be completely developed at some point anyway so whats the point of not collecting turtles, snakes, etc....the same can be said for illegal ORV destruction. Many times when illegal ORV/wildlife collecting has destroyed the area it makes it harder/or useless to protect from development. Everyone should be allowed to use the land but ones use shouldn't be detrimental to others use or obviously destructive....just my opinion.

Just a FYI for anyone reading, that place is one of the best places to get a ticket for illegal off roading. They do stings there alot.....last time I was there hiking two guys were getting an earful from CO's and it looked like there quads were being taken. I use to party there often in high school and I've heard they've crackdown on that as well.
 

mudboy dave

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
949
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atco
opentrailsnj.org
As i said"used to" lol. Its not even like that. what I'm saying is that we both want the land not to be developed right? we both want it to remain natural right? If we could fight together it would be ALOT bigger of a group. However some of the environmentalists would have to lighten up some. with no legal place to go wheeling, people are gonna go wherever looks good, fines or not. What I'm saying is for some of the hardcore environmentalists, lightewn up, meet at a happy medium and lets fight this crap together. would you rather see that place turn into a golf course or a truck ripping threw a mudhole? Everytime a place is found you get one guy complaining about the frogs, another about the snakes, another about birds, another about the flowers. if everyone fights each other we're going to continue to loose our land.