Fire breaks

Status
Not open for further replies.

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
23,949
5,990
What a waste of time. Those cuts won't stop a fire. There isn't a firebreak I've viewed that could. I should have written the Pinelands Commission and asked them to reign the FFS in when it comes to this.

Guy
 

dogg57

Piney
Jan 22, 2007
2,912
373
Southern NJ
southjerseyphotos.com
What a waste of time. Those cuts won't stop a fire. There isn't a firebreak I've viewed that could. I should have written the Pinelands Commission and asked them to reign the FFS in when it comes to this.

Guy
Guy I was told by Forest fighting guy that those breaks are more for controlled burning control in the spring.How true that is.Not sure,but that is what he said
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,642
695
Yes Boyd, all of the pines are permantly scared and thats what your map reveals, they are fire breaks. Atsion is devistated but it is not appaernt on your map. Maybe your map is old. What isthe date of the LIDAR images? These bozos have been particulary zelous reciently, and they target some areas intensively but ignore others which have a huge fuel buildup. I was going to post the areas with all of the fuel but if they hear of it they will probably destroy it, a fire wouldn't. Maybe it's about payday!
 
  • Like
Reactions: glowordz

Gibby

Piney
Apr 4, 2011
1,617
407
Trenton
Teegate, like Bobpbx said, write a letter! I am! Some points I am bringing up are: 1) impact on endangered species, 2) impact on habitat, 3) waste of manpower/ poor execution, and 4) the need for a biologist to be on sight to supervise sensitive areas. I am well aware that prescribed burns and firebreaks are necessary to the health of the forest and for the protection of life, but that is a mute point with my intentions. I am open to any other ideas to add.
 
  • Like
Reactions: glowordz

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,287
1,881
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
What isthe date of the LIDAR images?

No easy answer to that because it's a patchwork quilt of little pieces shot at different times. If you really want to know, go here and click through to the national map viewer, then zoom way in on the pines: http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

Click the Download Data button (arrow pointing down) in the search bar and choose Index 24. That will display the quad boundaries. Click on the one you want, then click on its link that is shown in the left pane of the window. A bubble will appear pointing to the quad. Click the download button, check the elevation box then click Next. This displays a list of all elevation data for the quad. The (NED) 1/9 Arc Second data is what I used. For example, this is Atsion which shows both 2005 and 2011. But it's unclear exactly what that means, it might mean some was shot in 2005 and other in 2011.

I downloaded all of the older stuff awhile ago. This year I added 2011 data to fill in the blanks, such as whole quads (Southern mostly) that weren't available before. The best I can say is that my map data is from the period 2005-2011.


NED.png
 

Gibby

Piney
Apr 4, 2011
1,617
407
Trenton
Thank you Gibby!!!!

Your welcome!

If I can whine and moan about petty things at a party, I might as well take the time to pen a letter about how I view the FFS and its impact on the land we all enjoy very much. It has to start some time, might as well be now.
 

oji

Piney
Jan 25, 2008
2,068
407
61
Browns Mills
There is a Pinelands Comm. meeting on friday, unfortunately it's at 9:30 am. When I was dealing with a roadside mowing issue I called and left my name and description of my issue and always got a return call.
 

local vollie

Scout
Apr 6, 2011
46
3
OK, here we go again. As usual, most of the posters on this forum have NO IDEA what the hell they're talking about. These are FIRE CONTROL LINES for upcoming controlled burns for later in February-March. They are not fire breaks. That is the purpose of this prsecribed burn plan. Again, just like last years' BS posts, ALL these plans have been submitted for approval, and APPROVED. Secondly, 90% of these "new" lines are re-plows of older control lines that have been there for 30+ years. Very few new ones were created. You people need to refocus and allow these professionals to do their jobs without the needless harassment. This prescribed burn is actually at the epicenter of the Wharton track, and allows a substantial fire break to protect agricultural properties in the immediate area, and to ensure that in the event of a wildland fire, that fuel loads have been reduced to a controllable level. Some parts of this prescribed plan hasn't burned since 1954. This is why some control lines are so close to one another, in order to maintain sufficient control .

Instead of getting on here and running with your chokes out, WHY don't you contact Division B Headquarters in New Lisbon, and ASK WHAT and WHY they are doing what they're doing ??? I'm sure your concern is well intentioned, but your method of voicing your opinions leaves alot to be desired. Why don't you try working together instead of attempting to ridicule these fine men and women for their effrts to maintain a viable eco-system here in NJ.

BTW, ecampbell, was that you in the light brown jeep wrangler there today? You know, the one that sped away in a hurry when you saw the FF trucks there? If it was, why didn't you just drive over and ASK ?????????
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
23,949
5,990
I for one have no problem with burning and the FFS; however, those who approve the fires don't always know what is in the woods they allow this to happen in. Even though you seem to think we have no idea what we are talking about, I can tell you that we know quite a bit more about some of the locations you are needlessly digging up than you realize. Last year the FFS dug right through an area that many individuals have worked hard to keep hidden and remote. In one day the FFS ruined that. And when confronted by various individuals they offered to remedy the situation and did a half ass job doing so. It was embarrassing what they felt solved the problem..

So before you comment here you have to realize that when you post we all look at each other and say the same thing. You really don't always know what you are talking about.

Guy
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,594
2,858
Pines; Bamber area
OK, here we go again. As usual, most of the posters on this forum have NO IDEA what the hell they're talking about. These are FIRE CONTROL LINES for upcoming controlled burns for later in February-March. They are not fire breaks.

Vollie, I heard that half-assed explanation in the past. If that is true, then what they are doing is 10 times overkill. What you are saying is that they need a path to walk down with a drip flame fire starter. HOW RIDICULOUS IS THAT!

Why not not be a man, get with the technology, and do it on foot with a GPS and avoid a 5 foot wide gouged hole where you knock down trees and disturb the soil and any dens in the process. Also, if they can see the old plow lines to walk it, then just walk it, don't dig it all over again!

I'm sick and tired of you whining about their job, and how important it is. I see nothing important in doing that. It is make-work!
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,594
2,858
Pines; Bamber area
Bob, did anything come of the requests in that letter?

Was the biologist Kris Shantz? She is feisty and a good advocate for timber rattlesnakes.

It may have been...I forget. Email her and ask her if she remembers and what came of it. Kerry represented the FRMC at the meeting. I was working.
 

GermanG

Piney
Apr 2, 2005
1,075
379
Little Egg Harbor
Bob, without addressing the planning or whatever natural or cultural resources may or may not be affected by the burning at this particular site I can speak for the methods, since we do burns at our park and others using county staff. The lines need to be re-plowed before each and every burn because they are not there to create a path to walk on with the drip torches but to create a strip of bare earth that the fire will not cross. The line is fired on the upwind side of the line so it can burn slowly against the wind across the block being burned. If fire crossed the lines due to leaves, pine needles or humus being on the surface it would build up speed quickly as it burned with the wind in the other direction and possibly spread into the canopy resulting in a wildfire. This has always been standard practice everywhere prescribed burns are done.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,594
2,858
Pines; Bamber area
Bob, without addressing the planning or whatever natural or cultural resources may or may not be affected by the burning at this particular site I can speak for the methods, since we do burns at our park and others using county staff.

German, as you know, the target time to burn is under very specific weather conditions. I have never seen a wildfire in the winter. This is over-precaution to the point of destroying the woods. Period (Sir). This should not be a science project for them every year.

PS: They have burned some of these areas over and over again, so the chance of deep humus starting a wildfire is minimal anyway.

Double PS: That is some strip of bare earth in that photo. Are they planting deep potatoes, or digging for gold?
 

local vollie

Scout
Apr 6, 2011
46
3
German, Thank you for your unbiased description of the prescribed burn process. It seems SOME individuals can't quite seem to grasp the process. With that being said, to Teegate, if you and your associates ere unhappy with the performance at an individual site, please feel free to contact the appropriate Division HQ and work together to alleviate this discontent. Name calling here on this forum is non-productive. I'm not quite certain what you were trying to elude to by your comment of
...."Last year the FFS dug right through an area that many individuals have worked hard to keep hidden and remote.".......almost sounds like someone was trying to grow some illegal plants or something....LOL. Lastly, Bobpbx, you must be the cowardly lion....no courage... !!!! It's easy to hide behind your computer and chastise people who work very hard to maintain the forest lands in NJ. As GermanG explained, these plow lines serve as a barrier to keep fire in a specific block of woods. Leaves, pine needles, branches, etc.. serve as ladders for fire to cross into areas that are not intended to be burnt. These lines are cleaned periodically to assure that this cannot happen, prior to the prescibed burn to be executed. For the record, ANY state park land MUST be approved by a state committee that includes the Park Superintendent, Div. of Parks and Forestry, Office of natural lands management, and several others. So your assumption is just that, an assumption that the Forest Fire service does as it darn well pleases. AND we ALL know what happens when you assume something. Areas are prescribed burned on a rotational basis. Some are burned a little more frequently due to heavy regrowth that may occur, and some less frequently. No one haphazardly just picks a spot and says.."let's burn this piece"... ! I'm not sure who posted about the inability to DRIVE down these plow lines. YOU'RE NOT supposed to be driving down ANY of them !!!!! They are not for your access with a motor vehicle, and if you do, I hope the Park Police write each and every one of you. BTW, the CORRECT spelling is W.R.I.T.E. ......not right, as in right a letter (as posted several times earlier in this thread). Hopefully this explains a little more clearly what the FF Service is doing, and answers your questions. With regards to ......"being a man"..... this projected prescribed burn has been flown by helicopter, GPS'ed, and walked by foot to make sure each and every piece is properly surveyed, plowed, and safe to be burnt.
 
Apr 6, 2004
3,316
334
Galloway
vocal trollie said:
I'm not sure who posted about the inability to DRIVE down these plow lines. YOU'RE NOT supposed to be driving down ANY of them !!!!! They are not for your access with a motor vehicle, and if you do, I hope the Park Police write each and every one of you.

You misread. It's OK, it happens. Kinda like typos and misspellings, RIGHT? It happens.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top