hi,started out for the frm at 1200,arrived at the entrance point at1300,thanks guys for the info,that was the point i entered in the late 80s in my 85 ramcharger,quite a few vehicles on road and parked at side cutouts,heard no shooting though.road dry all the way to the big hill.stayed for 30 minutes enjoying the views,lots of burnt firewood up there and beer bottles,then took a hike down the clay road between the two hills,six big washouts,dry walkarounds,scrapped off boots for quite a while when we got back to the car,it must be hell on tires(power wash time)back out to 539 south to 72 east to 532 east to wells mill park,nice exhibits inside visitor center,taxidermed foxes,etc,lots of hiking trails,no current trail to frm,but caretaker said they are 6.7 miles away.east again on rt.532 pass the new albert music hall to rt 9 north to forked river and lacey road.as far as i could tell there were no open entrances to the frm,sand companies,private property,back in the late 70s i went in one of those ways in my z-28 with no problem,its a shame,because its a real short way in.went back to rt.539 east to mcmahon ave to pasadena road with a short stop at brooksbrae.trash as usual,on the way out a manchester twp.cruiser,saw us,waved and kept on going,no hassle,then on to apple pie,as we crested the hill,two guys were standing outside the tower from their jeep,then made a quick exit down the hill towards speedwellHMMMM.grafitti all over the tower steps and siding:jeffd: ,stopped then at my friends house who lives around camp innawendowin,whose name is suds for some cold buds then home in 45 minutes.there are some questions i would like to ask on a certain leg of my trip by private message,if certain parties are interested