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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pineypwr17, Feb 10, 2004.
Was there ever a history of the KKK anywhere in the pines?
it is a well known fact that chucks's hideaway (formerly brownie's) in egg harbor twp (steelmanville/bargaintown) was once a meeting place of the local kkk. not that this proves anything but there is an old barn right behind the restaurant.
I heard they were in Barnegat in the 1970's.
Yep they were in Settlers Landing. A little neighborhood in Barnegat. I remember when we were moving here from Toms River my mother would not buy a house there because of the KKK. I'm also thinking that in a store in Waretown on display use to be an old flyer for a KKK meeting in Waretown but that was 15 years ago and I can't remember which store.
This is about the KKK in New Jersey in 1924 but doesn't really say they were in the pines but talks about them being in 80 communities. http://www.capitalcentury.com/1924.html
This is from a little history on Wall township
"The Ku Klux Klan under pseudonyms such as "The Pleasure Seekers Association" selected the Marconi buildings for their state headquarters in 1924. Klan real estate holdings extending as far as Brisbane were divided in various size lots for purchase by their followers. Residents today who purchase property in this once Klan area may find a reference to this group in the title search.. The Klan had to leave in 1928 due to internal problems and external political pressure. By way of contrast, in 1937, an evangelical, co-educational, liberal arts institution was founded on this same site by Rev. Percy Crawford. His rapidly growing "King's College" operated for about three years before business and educational problems caused the group to move to Delaware."
There was suppose to be a book called The Ku Klux Klan in New Jersey but I haven't seen in anywhere yet.
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I believe that the "Illes Farm" behind "Chucks Hide-away (formerly Brownies)" was found to be a local HQ of the klan. When developers leveled it some years back, a fair amount of dynamite was found (and disposed of) adjacent to some underground tunnels that may have been klan related. The klan also may have been in several locations through-out South Jersey as they touted themselves to be a benevolent organisation (for some). They were hyped up by media sometimes, but mostly they stayed low-key. I don't recall hearing of any rallys, etc. in modern times directly related to the KKK. Of the few times I heard of cross burnings it seemed to be related to a few individuals and not associated with the klan.
I've only heard the stories and really have no clue. I've heard some burnings still take place in the Port Republic area from an older gent I know who lives there. I'd guess these are just racist people with no real link to Klan activity, but what do I know. I do see a lot of Confederate flags in the pines, both on houses and stickers on trucks. I think the flag is misunderstood by many, but can also see why it's offensive to others. Some people just have a deep appreciation for the South and the bygone days when people fended for themselves and life was in slow motion so to say. Today, most people are caught up in the rat race to keep up with the Joneses and continue feeding big corporations. I also sympathize with the Jonny Reb notion that the fed govt shouldnt play such a large role in the lives of its citizens.. that could get ugly down the road. The ignorant folks who still are racist need a good boot up their rear to wake up. Interesting topic though.
I've noticed the confederate flags as well. As you pointed out that doesn't necessarily mean anything racist. I've also noted a strong interest in southern rock and country in the pines. Just like the plants and animals, the pines is a kind of melt of southern and northern culture. Much Much more so than De or NY.
I have a friend who attended Pemberton HS before Seneca was built. He mentioned the racial tension that existed there and that the Chatsworth crowd were known for being very close knit and (and least mildly) racist. He said they didn't get much pressure from other groups within the school and were misunderstood/feared a little. I also have a friend who is a young girl that graduated from Senaca only recently. She told me similar stories about the Chatsworth crowd. She said that they were known as 'the pineys" and had crashed a party she was at where they forced the DJ to play southern rock all night:rofl:
I read an old article reprint in one of the local papers, that the clan donated an American flag for one of the classrooms when one of the schools was built. It listed the organizations who donated them. I forget the date of the original article. I miss Brownie's. Spent more than a few nights in there. The Sunday bbqs were great also.
Right or wrong, many believe the Mason/Dixon line went thru southern NJ. Not my quote below.
"As a history major in college and a South Jersey resident I feel that is my place to finally calm the confused waters of the Mason Dixon Line/New Jersey controversy. Yes, the Mason Dixon Line is the border between Pennsylvania and Maryland but if you take a ruler to a map at that border you will see that it crosses well into New Jersey, regardless of whether this was the intended purpose of this border.
The whole concept behind the Mason Dixon line revolves around landmarks. Many North Jerseans sometimes consider South Jersey as "The South". This is probably due to the distinct change in landscape that occurs travelling south into Gloucester and Salem Counties and finally into Cumberland and Cape May. This region does indeed look much like the South. It is the region that earned New Jersey the nickname "The Garden State"; known for New Jersey tomatoes.
A landmark that one would consider to be New Jersey's Mason Dixon Line is Oldman's Creek, which is the border between Gloucester and Salem counties. Using the ruler-map method you'll see that the Delaware border (Mason Dixon Line) runs directly into this creek.
Also, in the small South Jersey town of Deepwater (off the Delaware River) there is a deep swamp where a revolutionary war cemetery is located. On the other side of this swamp there is an old sign which says "Delaware Property", and it is. Delaware owns a relatively large swamp in New Jersey on this small piece of land right off the Jersey side of the Delaware River. This landmark is often looked upon as a North/South border mark. They say that Delaware won the land in a dispute with New Jersey during the Revolutionary War. This could be true in regards to the fact that Delaware, although it was considered a Union state, was prominent for slaves. Slaves would often cross over to New Jersey from Delaware to that same general area in Salem County where this swamp is located. Keep in mind that this area is known for its contributions to the Underground Railroad.
So, even if the Mason Dixon line does not officially run through New Jersey its influence has had a profound effect on the state's history."
Back in colonial times there was an official East and West Jersey. The line between them ran from Little Egg Harbor to the Delaware Water Gap.
The Mason Dixie goes south before NJ, seperating Maryland and Delaware, but if it do go stright it would cut through Jersey. I think this guy was reaching a little.http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/masondixon.htm
I will always rock my stars and bars, however I do have quite a few freinds who are not white, I live in a a fairly dark neighboprhood as well and do not get messed with. I think quite a few understand that I'm not racist and also i DO live me life in the slower lane and could care less about most things in life. I got my son, my fiance, my pets and my trucks and thats all I need for me to be happy. I wish more people could live life like me cause this world would be a lot more peaceful of a place
There is a sign for the MD line on the NJ Turnpike. Some folks believe what they want to believe. It has been under dispute since the Civil War, with various definitions in use.
A lot may have something to do with the idea of a north and south Jersey. There is a sign on the bridge over the Cape May canal showing the border line of North and South Jersey. This is most likely the reason for all the Dixie flags down that way.
Neat picture 46er. Did a municipality really put that sign up or you think a local did it?
The forums entertained a discussion of the Mason-Dixon Line back in July 2007. Here is what I wrote then:
Regarding the Mason-Dixon line, it makes no sense that New Jersey contains or did contain any monuments of a line surveyed to settle the boundary dispute between William Penn’s heirs and Lord Baltimore’s heirs. I think any fakelore that developed surrounding M-D line monuments in New Jersey stem from the line serving as a defacto division point between the domains of the USA and CSA during the Civil War. And even that does not make sense, since most southern New Jersey counties voted in the majority for Lincoln. In November 1768, Charles Mason and Jermiah Dixon set double crownstones at the north end of the North Line, located in the northeast corner of Maryland where it meets Pennsylvania. This represents their No. 1 monument, meaning no monuments extended eastward beyond this point. Entertaining any thoughts of M-D monuments in New Jersey is just folly, IMHO.
I still stand by these same words today. Historically, New Jersey existed as East New Jersey and West New Jersey and the unofficial shift to the “north” and the ”south” delineators for the state’s two sectors did not occur until during the Civil War. It is at that point, in 1863, the South Jersey Republican begins publication in Absecon and then moves to Hammonton in 1866. This is the first reference I have found for the term “South Jersey” and I think it may well stem from the partisan differences between pro-slavery North Jersey and pro-Lincoln South Jersey. An irony to be sure, since it is the exact opposite of America during that time period: the North stood for abolition and the South sought to retain “that peculiar institution” known as slavery. For further discussion on this subject, I direct you to:
Have no idea, but it looks pretty permanent. After the canal was built the folks living on the south side began calling the area Cape May Island, still referred to that way.
I’ve always been amused in the past by the comments made by people who thought the Mason-Dixon Line applies to any division of New Jersey. As already posted, the statements usually include the term “if you extend the line with a ruler….”. Well, by that rationale, I could look up my house on the twp. tax map and extend lines with a ruler all over the place and end up owning half the town. The word “if” is a very little and often overlooked word, but a very powerful one.
I had a first sergeant who did not consider Virginia a southern state. New Jersey, hah. He was from Texas. While driving through Alabama a few months ago, I did not see as many Confederate battle flags as I thought I would, nor in any of the other states in the deep south. I don't think I have ever seen the Stars and Bars displayed, except by reenactors.