Mannis Duck Pond

[Jon Holcombe]

I hiked up Mannis Pond Rd from Bulldozed Rd today, scouting locations for possible photography. I was surprised to find this spillway/dam with this plaque. A search revealed that (of course) it has been discussed here before. I am curious whether anyone knows for sure if there was a Lower Forge Deer Club, and if they built this dam. And I am also curious how they would have driven a concrete truck up this small path in 1962. I would think that a truck that heavy would have no chance of making it to this spot, considering how narrow the path is, and how soft the ground is, unless it was dramatically different in 1962.

I was also struck how the forest on the way up Mannis Pond road was nothing but pines and bayberry? Do I have that right? Looks like there may have been a fire that cleared all of the undergrowth out, leaving nothing but (bayberry?), I have no skill whatsoever at flora. Sorry I did not take a shot of that, I should have.

 

[SuperChooch]

I've always been interested in Mannis Duck pond. I even made a very similar observation about the challenges of building that dam.

https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/where-is-this.9838/page-43

Great Jon/John's think alike, I guess. Don Catts added some really interesting info about the pond in that thread above, but I never did find out who "Mannis" is.

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Wow, it's all there Chooch, thanks. I didn't read far enough before, Don Catts really laid it out. I'd still like to know how a big cement truck got that far into the woods. Too bad most of the original members (of the Lower Forge Deer Club) aren't here to tell us.

 

[ecampbell]

We were there Tuesday morning. You probably saw our very large dog foot prints. It is dry so we were able to park here.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.73550204202395&lng=-74.66519850891114&z=15&type=terrain&gpx=

 

[Jon Holcombe]

We were there Tuesday morning. You probably saw our very large dog foot prints. It is dry so we were able to park here.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.73550204202395&lng=-74.66519850891114&z=15&type=terrain&gpx=

I almost made a right turn a few feet from there onto... I guess it's a dry spung?... instead of going a bit further and walking onto Mannis Pond Rd. I didn't notice footprints since I wanted to make sure I make the correct turn!

 

[46er]

I am curious whether anyone knows for sure if there was a Lower Forge Deer Club, and if they built this dam. And I am also curious how they would have driven a concrete truck up this small path in 1962. I would think that a truck that heavy would have no chance of making it to this spot, considering how narrow the path is, and how soft the ground is, unless it was dramatically different in 1962.

Contact Marilyn Schmidt, owner of Buzbys in Chatsworth. She was putting a book together on deer clubs and might have knowledge of it.

They probably mixed their own cement on site.

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Contact Marilyn Schmidt, owner of Buzbys in Chatsworth. She was putting a book together on deer clubs and might have knowledge of it.

They probably mixed their own cement on site.

I guess if you loaded up a few pick-up trucks with bags of concrete mix, wood for forms, and a portable cement mixer, and used the pond for water... I suppose that makes sense. That is lot of concrete, and there is more under the leaves. I am far from a contracter, but I've mixed some concrete at a couple of houses I lived in to patch small areas in walks. Even that was hard, dirty work. Pretty big undertaking. They went to a ton of trouble to do that.

 

[46er]

Not by hand Jon. Contractors used trailerable cement mixers, still do.

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Right, that's why I said "portable". Everything still had to get hauled there, and the concrete has to get into the forms, by shovel or by some sort of chutes. Still seems like a big, dirty, job to me, but then so does mowing my lawn!

 

[SuperChooch]

And don't forget they would have had to redirect the water flow to keep the forms dry until the concrete set. That is some deep woods piney engineering!

 

[Jon Holcombe]

And don't forget they would have had to redirect the water flow to keep the forms dry until the concrete set. That is some deep woods piney engineering!

These were the guys coming out of WWII or Korea, like my father. And the guys that ran NASA and sent "test pilots" to the moon. They thought they could do pretty much anything... and they were right.

 

[manumuskin]

Do you have any photos of this "Bayberry"? It could be bayberry but I think "Inkberry" probably more likely. If you crush bayberry leaves they smell good.Inkberry leaves have no smell other then crushed leaf smell.

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Do you have any photos of this "Bayberry"? It could be bayberry but I think "Inkberry" probably more likely. If you crush bayberry leaves they smell good.Inkberry leaves have no smell other then crushed leaf smell.

MM, I should have taken a shot but I didn't. I've never seen a section of woods that seemed quite like this, just pitch pine, and these low bushes, maybe 2 or 3 feet tall, which were a pretty light green. The berries were also green. There wasn't a lot of undergrowth and overgrowth, rotten wood, briars, etc, like so much of the pine barrens has. And no other bushes, just the light green bushes. As if there had been a fire which burned away everthing else, but the pine didn't look charred. Like maybe it happened five years ago.

 

[ecampbell]

There was a fire there in June 2011, .
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/wharton-forest-fire-06-10-11.7313/#post-86220

There was also a BIG fire at Mannis to the north in the early to mid 80's. That one took the trees down, and for a long time was a great place to hike. Now it is so overgrown you can't see much. Imagine standing there and seeing almost to the horizon.

 

[SuperChooch]

MM, I should have taken a shot but I didn't. I've never seen a section of woods that seemed quite like this, just pitch pine, and these low bushes, maybe 2 or 3 feet tall, which were a pretty light green. The berries were also green. There wasn't a lot of undergrowth and overgrowth, rotten wood, briars, etc, like so much of the pine barrens has. And no other bushes, just the light green bushes. As if there had been a fire which burned away everthing else, but the pine didn't look charred. Like maybe it happened five years ago.

I think you are talking about this area? This is Mannis duck pond road in 2014, in November. You can't see the leaves on the bushes, obviously, but you could still see the char at the bottom of the trees at that time.

 

[Jon Holcombe]

There was a fire there in June 2011, .
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/wharton-forest-fire-06-10-11.7313/#post-86220

There was also a BIG fire at Mannis to the north in the early to mid 80's. That one took the trees down, and for a long time was a great place to hike. Now it is so overgrown you can't see much. Imagine standing there and seeing almost to the horizon.

Looking at your link and the satellite shot of the fire, the area (southwest of Mannis Pond) is where I noticed pines and light green, low bushes, and there didn't seem to be anything else at all. It was almost certainly the 2011 fire that accounts for the pristine pretty look of the forest in that area. It's like the fire cleansed the forest, leaving fresh, green bushes. We need more fires!

Chooch, your shots also show Mannis Pond Rd, but since it's a different season, doesn't look the same. I must have seen some charring on the pines the other day, since my impression had been there was a fire, but it wasn't real black, maybe because the bushes now have leaves on them and cover a lot of the char.

 

[manumuskin]

MM, I should have taken a shot but I didn't. I've never seen a section of woods that seemed quite like this, just pitch pine, and these low bushes, maybe 2 or 3 feet tall, which were a pretty light green. The berries were also green. There wasn't a lot of undergrowth and overgrowth, rotten wood, briars, etc, like so much of the pine barrens has. And no other bushes, just the light green bushes. As if there had been a fire which burned away everthing else, but the pine didn't look charred. Like maybe it happened five years ago.

Well ripe inkberries are black and ripe bayberries are a waxy grey but perhaps what you were seeing was most likely unripe berries.I have seen both inkberry and bayberry grow in solid patches but in the pines in an old burn I"d say inkberry.Or possibly Sheep laurel? but I"ve never seen berries on sheep laurel.Now another possibilty and there would definitely be green berries on it right now is huckleberry.If it was three feet tall I"d say Black Huckleberry.The berries are out and green right now.They turn blue to black in July.Huckleberry is so prevalent I never noticed it making an impression on someone except in October when it turns flame red to magenta but perhaps with the openeness and the still vibrant spring green of the foliage it impressed you.If the fire did not destroy the root layer but just wiped out the shrub layer then huckleberry would shoot back up with a vengeance before anything else had a chance to recuperate. I"d google Black Huckleberry and see if that is what you saw. Here is a pic I found.

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Well ripe inkberries are black and ripe bayberries are a waxy grey but perhaps what you were seeing was most likely unripe berries.I have seen both inkberry and bayberry grow in solid patches but in the pines in an old burn I"d say inkberry.Or possibly Sheep laurel? but I"ve never seen berries on sheep laurel.Now another possibilty and there would definitely be green berries on it right now is huckleberry.If it was three feet tall I"d say Black Huckleberry.The berries are out and green right now.They turn blue to black in July.Huckleberry is so prevalent I never noticed it making an impression on someone except in October when it turns flame red to magenta but perhaps with the openeness and the still vibrant spring green of the foliage it impressed you.If the fire did not destroy the root layer but just wiped out the shrub layer then huckleberry would shoot back up with a vengeance before anything else had a chance to recuperate. I"d google Black Huckleberry and see if that is what you saw. Here is a pic I found.

I googled Black Huckleberry and the color and height looks just right. Allowing for a lighter green of the spring leaves (or maybe it's because the wood was darkened from the fire), and immature green berries I think you have nailed it. I am going back into Wharton today and feel like I have to go back there and take a couple of shots. And you are also correct, by themselves relatively common and not impressive but with the absence of all other bushes except for the pine, the effect was striking. Funny how the more trips I take into the woods, the more I am beginning to appreciate the subtle beauty and variety of different areas of the pines.

 

[manumuskin]

By the way Jon,In another month you can eat those green berries,they will be blue/black.Huckleberry is a more meatier and seedier berry then blueberries but they are the same basic plant. Any blue berry with a calyx you can eat.If no calyx don't eat it.