Natural Gas Pipeline

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
Hi everyone,
I'm really pissed off that Christie stacked the commission to get a positive vote on that natural gas pipeline. I think that his history of retribution against those who oppose him is rather juvinile. I hope campaigning against the project isn't a lost cause. I fear for the future of the forests in the Pinelands, lest we become like the pine barrens in Long Island, I think it is of paramount importance that the independent authority of The Pinelands Commission remains independent and concerned only in the matters of preservation, and not buisness and the economy. How do the rest of you feel? Anyone actually think the pipeline is a good idea?
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
23,591
5,511
Lets look at this from another perspective.

This is nothing new ... and I bet most people do not even know that there was a similar threat years ago and in the end the project went through. Today, everyone here has passed it a million times and don't think twice about it. With the pipeline it will be underground and out of sight and out of mind. However, the threat from years ago is right there in our face everyday. Can you even guess what it is?


In the end there was a compromise, and the power lines were rerouted along the edges of developments and through dense remote portions of the pines that we know today to be the most vulnerable. If this project was brought up today the environmental groups and most of us would be furious. But the passage of time eases all pain and we eventually go right by them and never think twice.


Would you let the below project go through today? Do you even think twice about it? Granted, it is electricity and not oil, but would you even think about it 20 years from now if they built it?


http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/03312015/towers.jpg
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
137
23
40
Avenel
Lets look at this from another perspective.

This is nothing new ... and I bet most people do not even know that there was a similar threat years ago and in the end the project went through. Today, everyone here has passed it a million times and don't think twice about it. With the pipeline it will be underground and out of sight and out of mind. However, the threat from years ago is right there in our face everyday. Can you even guess what it is?


In the end there was a compromise, and the power lines were rerouted along the edges of developments and through dense remote portions of the pines that we know today to be the most vulnerable. If this project was brought up today the environmental groups and most of us would be furious. But the passage of time eases all pain and we eventually go right by them and never think twice.


Would you let the below project go through today? Do you even think twice about it? Granted, it is electricity and not oil, but would you even think about it 20 years from now if they built it?


http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/03312015/towers.jpg

From my research, past pipelines constructed through the pinelands were done so before the establishment of the commission. In regards to the powerlines, I have seen them, I don't particularly find them to be too much of an eyesore but they do pose danger to a fire prone forested region and I think with a little more money put into the project, these power lines would have been better placed underground much like the various lines att has I'b the barrens. What bothers me the most is the actions of the governed. He has made it clear that he will react negatively to anyone who dares question or oppose his authority. Stacking the commission forever increases the vulnerability of the independent nature of the commission. It's juvinile and brash politics by someone who thinks his authority should go unquestioned, and as obvious in the many rants he has when people present him with a line of questioning he doesn't like, he is a bully who thinks he is above others. It's very disheartening.
 

1Jerseydevil

Explorer
Feb 14, 2009
528
187
I thought this topic was about the pipeline, not political whining.
I agree with Teegate and yes, I'm for the pipeline and no I would not derive any direct benefit from it.
Do you think the Parkway could be built today?
There needs to be preservation and there needs to be compromise.
You claim it's for big business, well yeah, everyone one of us uses the big business products or services. Do you have electric?
Do you use gas to heat and cook? Do you drive? How do you access the Pines from your house, walk, ride a horse or drive your car on roads bulldozed through the Pines?
If you were talking a major housing development, airport, garbage dump, industrial complex, yeah, I'd be onboard.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,838
2,128
Coastal NJ
You have to wonder what the issue really is once a person takes the time and does the research.

"What is unknown and little understood is that the pipeline within Pinelands area would run parallel to and within rights-of-way of public roads, including NJ State Highway Route 49. This means the pipeline will run under and adjacent to already paved roadways, and will therefore not cut into this treasured and pristine area of our state."
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
137
23
40
Avenel
I thought this topic was about the pipeline, not political whining.
I agree with Teegate and yes, I'm for the pipeline and no I would not derive any direct benefit from it.
Do you think the Parkway could be built today?
There needs to be preservation and there needs to be compromise.
You claim it's for big business, well yeah, everyone one of us uses the big business products or services. Do you have electric?
Do you use gas to heat and cook? Do you drive? How do you access the Pines from your house, walk, ride a horse or drive your car on roads bulldozed through the Pines?
If you were talking a major housing development, airport, garbage dump, industrial complex, yeah, I'd be onboard.
Yeah, it is a political issue as well as an environmental one. The politics involved are dishonest, and you miss the point of how this is the first time the commission has been stacked by the state government. This proposal has been knocked down twice already. There is something fishy going on. It was first reported that south Jersey gas was vying for this pipeline, but the plant that wants to build the pipeline has pushed their case to the courts. Christie has had a history of retribution against anyone who crosses him. After the first two votes for the pipeline project failed, Christie cut funding and raises in salary for the Pinelands Commission. I find these actions immature. He feels like he has an ultimate authority and shouldn't be crossed or questioned. What precedent that sets, in this case, is a dangerous one that undermines the authority and independence of the Pinelands Commission. It should be impossible for the commission to be stacked, and it's independence should be nearly absolute. In the this case, South Jersey Gas is a third party, just like the Commission itself, the state government really has no claim in this instance.
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
137
23
40
Avenel
I thought this topic was about the pipeline, not political whining.
I agree with Teegate and yes, I'm for the pipeline and no I would not derive any direct benefit from it.
Do you think the Parkway could be built today?
There needs to be preservation and there needs to be compromise.
You claim it's for big business, well yeah, everyone one of us uses the big business products or services. Do you have electric?
Do you use gas to heat and cook? Do you drive? How do you access the Pines from your house, walk, ride a horse or drive your car on roads bulldozed through the Pines?
If you were talking a major housing development, airport, garbage dump, industrial complex, yeah, I'd be onboard.
I'm insulted that you called my comments political whining. I did not speak to anyone on this forum in that manner and I will be reporting you to the site moderators for the jibe.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,386
113
40
camden county
From the start I haven't thought this pipeline issue was a big deal in anyway. The impact isn't that great. This isn't like they are going to start doing natural gas drilling in the pines, its just to run a very minor line so people down the shore can live normal lives. The result of the lack of comprise is the pinelands commission is now weaker. It should have never been fought from the start, just let them do it and gain some land protection in return. I would have been all up for holly orchard protected as a swap if that was a possibility, not saying it was. I understand you can't let the the enemy win any battles, but the inability to comprimise just creates alot of bad blood and bad future outcomes IMO.
 
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Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
You have to wonder what the issue really is once a person takes the time and does the research.

"What is unknown and little understood is that the pipeline within Pinelands area would run parallel to and within rights-of-way of public roads, including NJ State Highway Route 49. This means the pipeline will run under and adjacent to already paved roadways, and will therefore not cut into this treasured and pristine area of our state."

You are only partially correct. The fact is that this pipeline will only partially run along established highways. There is a stretch of 7 miles through forest will be drilled under one lake and two streams. Contamination from building it, and possible failure could contaminate the 17 trillion gallon aquifer that holds some of the purest water in the country. The pinelands commission put up a movie on YouTube that displays the area of the reserve that the pipeline would run through. You have to realize, many trees will be felled to allow trucks with machinery and workers access to the lands. Chemical contaminants will undoubtedly breach the sand. It's not a low impact construction, this is an extremely sensitive ecosystem. There are other routes the pipeline could take that wouldnt traverse any areas in the pines. They don't want to take those routes of course, because it would mean more spending.
When the power lines were built in the reserve, the commission was given millions of dollars in which they used to purchase new forest and wetlands to add to the reserve. No such incentives are being offered with this proposal.
 
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Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
Jason, I have no idea where you obtain your information, but it is grossly inaccurate. Please provide your source. You might consider reviewing the MOA for accurate details. I have attached a link to it on the Pineland Commission web site for your reading pleasure. Enjoy your evening.

http://www.state.nj.us/pinelands/infor/moa/Under Consideration/Draft PC-BPU MOA 11-27 (Posted).pdf

I'm sorry, but you are wrong:
http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/protection/hotissues/development/southjergasline/

http://media.philly.com/images/20131130-pinelands-pipeline.jpg

http://thejerseyphiles.com/tag/pine-barrens/

http://njsouthbound.com/vol8/battling-over-gas-pipeline-in-the-pinelands/

The draft you sent me even acknowledges that 10 miles of the pipeline will run through a forest management area.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,838
2,128
Coastal NJ

They are newspaper reports. :rolleyes: Do you understand what a forest management area means and is, and that RT 49, the road the pipeline will use, goes thru one? :smug:

http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/downloads/pinelandsalliance_853.pdf

http://www.nj.gov/pinelands/landuse/gis/maps/archD.pdf
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,435
1,378
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
I think the bigger issue here is that the Commission voted down the MOA, and then Christie stacked the commission with his own pipeline-friendly cronies.

Will the pipeline itself cause an end to the pinelands? No. But how about a supposedly independent commission now being controlled by a very much anti-environmental policy governor?
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
137
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Avenel
They are newspaper reports. :rolleyes: Do you understand what a forest management area means and is, and that RT 49, the road the pipeline will use, goes thru one? :smug:

http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/downloads/pinelandsalliance_853.pdf

http://www.nj.gov/pinelands/landuse/gis/maps/archD.pdf

Yes I do. And as reported by the draft proposal that you attached to me, ten miles of this pipeline will leave the road to pass directly through a plot of la nd in the forest management area.
As defined by the Pinelands Commission itself:
The Pinelands Comprehensive Management Plan establishes nine land use management areas with goals, objectives, development intensities and permitted uses for each. The boundaries of these management areas are displayed on the Pinelands Land Capability Map. They are implemented through local zoning that must conform with Pinelands land use standards. Below are generalized descriptions of each management area with permitted uses. The summaries below are intended only to serve as a guide and are subject to various local conditions and limitations.

.Forest Area – 257,000 acres. Similar to the Preservation Area District in terms of ecological value; this is a largely undeveloped area that is an essential element of the Pinelands environment. It contains high quality water resources and wetlands and provides suitable habitat for many threatened and endangered species. Clustered housing on one acre lots is permitted at an average residential density of one home per every 28 acres. Roadside retail within 300 feet of pre-existing commercial uses is permitted, as are low intensity recreational uses.
My biggest concern is not for the area of the forest that will be disturbed for this pipeline, but rather for the future authority and independence of the Commission. That's the exact same reason 4 former Governers from different parties came together to speak out against the stacking of the commission. A precedent is set where if the commission votes in a way a politician doesn't like, or in a manner that would cost the builders more money, then you simply stack the commission in your favor. Why should we care that it would cost the company more money to use a route that would bypass the Pinelands altogether? They are an independent business, that's their problem, not the state government, not ours, and certainly not the commission. This is the result of Government interference where it doesn't belong. New Jersey Gas is a third party just like the Commission is. This was voted down twice, a project Christie is heavily involved in. Recently it has come out that there has been a lot of contact between the Governers office and South Jersey Gas. A court order was made to release the many emails that have been found between the two parties. I don't have the article at the moment, but I will look it up and send you the link.
 
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Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
I think the bigger issue here is that the Commission voted down the MOA, and then Christie stacked the commission with his own pipeline-friendly cronies.

Will the pipeline itself cause an end to the pinelands? No. But how about a supposedly independent commission now being controlled by a very much anti-environmental policy governor?
Thank you! This is the point I am making. They wanted to vote out the last head of the commission because he didn't favor Christie's authority. The man Christie backed was voted incompetent for the Job. But,some political backstabbing occurred and christe managed to stack the commission with this guy at its head. Very dishonest, deceitful politics. If they can do this once, what's to stop them from completely undermining the authority and independence of the Commission in the Future? The reserve becomes imperiled through this action.
 
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Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
23,591
5,511
Very dishonest, deceitful politics.

I am sure most of us here feel the same way, but did you expect anything different? The commission will have it's good times and it's bad but ultimately and unfortunately it will most likely fail. The pressure to build and alter the pines will be too great.
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
137
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Avenel
I am sure most of us here feel the same way, but did you expect anything different? The commission will have it's good times and it's bad but ultimately and unfortunately it will most likely fail. The pressure to build and alter the pines will be too great.
It doesn't have to happen. It's really up to people like us. Your admission about the Commission doomed to failure is nothing short of depressing. That land belongs to the Citizens of this state. With effort and solidarity, we could at least make a greater stand in the future than we made in this instance.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,377
2,595
Pines; Bamber area
I am sure most of us here feel the same way, but did you expect anything different? The commission will have it's good times and it's bad but ultimately and unfortunately it will most likely fail. The pressure to build and alter the pines will be too great.

Guy, please. Don't be cynical. There is always hope.
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
Guy, please. Don't be cynical. There is always hope.

Thank you. I did find that statement by Teegate extremely cynical. I hope the pine barrens, especially the established state forest lands, to exist for hundreds of years more barring extreme climate change of course. Although, actually I have read a lot of literature about the global warming trend that we actually cause the pine barrens to advance northward, so who knows. I also see positive things occurring in the expansion of lands purchased by the commission, in recent years Wharton State forest has grown significantly acquiring a decent amount of acreage. So I remain positive that I will at least enjoy the last wilderness in our state until the time I die.
 
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