Timbered roads? Spong?

[uuglypher]

Among the tales I heard as a kid of my Dad's wanderings in the pines in the 20s was mention of he and his Toms River friends (Bart Havens and Joe Citta) having come across some stretches of what he called "timbered roads." I can't remember if they were in a Model-T or a Model-A, but the report was that when they'd hit a timbered stretch they had to slow way down or risk immediate vibrational disassembly of their vehicle.

Anyway, Bart's father, Burt Havens (whom I met in '51 or '52 when I was eleven or twelve, respectively, and he was ... ancient ... probably only a decade or so older than I am now...) was considered something of a local history resource and had suggested that the timbered roads my Dad and his friends had found were probably remnants of roads laid down in pre-revolutionary colonial times - especially over or thru spongs or sloughs*. The cedar logs could be expected to last for ages and they stood up well under wagon and cart wheels going into or out of the pines with bog iron, moss, timber, charcoal, or what have you.

It was either that summer ('51) or the next one that my Dad decided he was going to show me some of those "colonial timbered roads". We headed down south of Chatsworth - maybe around Speedwell / Friendship- not real sure. Well, to make a long story short, after repeatedly getting our '41 DeSoto repeatedly stuck in and unstuck from the sand, and much hiking up narrow sandy traces into some boggy, soggy ground, we found not one splinter, much less a log of a timbered road. By day's end Dad was dejected - possibly because we didn't find the timbered roads of his youth, but I think also because I wasn't really into timbered roads and had had a great time anyway learning how to catch fence swifts without causing their tails to fall off. Hey; what's an eleven- or twelve-year old know from colonial timbered roads, much less care, right?

O.K.; so now I remember and am interested, but I still have no first-hand knowledge or evidence of the existance of a timbered road nor of any knowledgable history of such in the pines, but I figure if there are still some remnants or knowledge of them, this is the group to ask about it. Anybody seen 'em or know what I'm talkin' about? Or better yet ... what my Dad was talkin' about?

*which brings up another question: how do a slough and a spong differ from any other sort of boggy wetland? Last time I asked anyone about a "spong" they said there was a Spong who was an ultra- liberal Bishop of the Episcopal church - and looked at me as if everybody knew THAT! No help there...

Dave

 

[woodjin]

timbered roads

Dave, In regard to timbered or corduroy roads here is an excerpt from the book Heart of the Pines by John E. Pearce, p.720:

"Corduroy roads made from logs laid side by side through the swamps enabled wagons, and later trucks , to make their way through the muck to haul out the logs. Finished lumber was loaded onto sloops and schooners for shipment to the NY and Philadelphia markets. After the railroads came through Hammonton and Egg Harbor City, wagons , and later, trucks , hauled the final products overland to be shipped by rail."

According to the book these roads were frequent at the turn of the century (1900). I'm sure many would have still been in healthy existence in the 1920's. Interestingly, I have come across at least two corduroy roads in my travels. One exists off of Mt Misery road not far from where I live. I couln't guess how long it has been there, but from the cond. of the road I would say a while. It is nearly impassable save for a brave soul not afraid to get a little muddy (yes I've crossed it). It was once lined with cedars which now impede mobility rather than enhance it.

I know there was heavy, heavy lumbering in the great swamp in the early 1900 hundreds and that area must have been covered with these roads. I believe I have seen the decaying remains of those roads in that area.

As for spongs...other than being an ultra liberal bishop in an Episcopal church as everybody and their brother knows (LOL, I had no idea), I have always regarded one as an area not as dry as a savanna but not as wet as a swamp. Howard Boyd had a definition in one of his books but I can't find that book right now. Due to fluctuating water levels, I might refer to the same area as a spong during dry months and later, a swamp during wet months. I don't know if this is really correct but I often think of spongs as trasitional.

Jeff

 

[uuglypher]

Jeff-

"Corduroy road" - Now there's a term that rings a bell from my Dad's discourses! So the extant ones don't really date back to revolutionary times! No good reason that they should, I suppose. The need for a means of traversing and improving a track thru spongy, boggy, soft, wet ground was as real in the 19th as in the 18th century.

And thanks, Jeff, for your thoughts on "spong". Makes sense, as the thoughts of one with the handle "woodjin" would be expected to on such a subject!

If my orientation and recollection aren't too far off, then the lake in that development just northwest of Upton was naught but a marsh or bog (slough?) - not quite a "swamp" - that, in drought periods (like the late 50s to mid 60s) morphed into a "spong."

In reviewing the pictures you kindly sent, and the terraserver images, I realize that my seat-of-the-pants orientation of that region was off by about 45 degrees; I had it in mind that route 70 was more east-west than northeast-southwest and that the railbed lay at a right angle to 70 rather than the approx 60 degrees that it actually does.

They say "...you can't go home again." Well, you sure as Hell can't if it's not where you imagined it to be!

Best regards,
Dave

 

[Ben Ruset]

I also have heard about "corduroy" roads. There was a brief passage in one of my NJ History textbooks from a class taken a long time ago.

I seem to remember that yes, these did exist in the colonial era, and that most of them were toll roads as well. In fact, it makes sense. Why else would you improve a sand road unless you were going to make money from it?

 

[onehand]

"corduroy" roads

i remember seeing one in back of lebanon lakes in the 60's along with two piney huts. it went into the swamp, probubly for cutting cedar.

early this year two others and myself tried to fined this area, we forund the old over grown road back int the site but the ticks were sooo bad we had to leave

as soon as tick and chigger season is over i will return and try to find the corduroy road in to the swamp again

tha coords are n 39 53 966 w 74 33 497, puts you on the edge of the swamp in the general area

 

[Ben Ruset]

Actually, I think that the road that got the swamp monster out to where it is was a corduroy road as well.

 

[wis bang]

corduroy was a colonial road buiding method. The timber stack still allows water to percolate thru. I don't know how today's 'tree hugging' population would take them but I've seen this type of construction used to repair a swampy spot on a pipeline so utility trucks could reach the rest of the section. It was in the Poconos about 20 yrs ago on a section of the Buckeye Pipeline that we used to backpack on to reach the Lehigh river above F. E. Walter Dam.

It would make sense to a piney, use the materials [timber] to reach the materials they wanted to get out of the swamp.

 

[BEHR655]

Actually, I think that the road that got the swamp monster out to where it is was a corduroy road as well.

Yes it was and there is one near Martha as well. I've never equated "corduroy" with log roads though. I though a log road was a "cedar road" and a "corduroy road" was a road that is ribbed due to erosion. But what do I know?

Steve

 

[uuglypher]

I appreciate the feedback!

As for roads that become ribbed due to traffic, the road and highway engineers usually used the term "corrugated" for them. Seen best on gravel and sand roads and has something to do with vehicle speed, harder rather than softer tires, and "saltation" of dislodged sand grains... it's a self-perpetuating phenomenon. Scrape out the road and the corrugations soon reappear with continued traffic. Even happens to a lesser degree on blacktop and concrete roads Back in the early 60s there was an article in Scientific American on the topic.

If I say any more on that topic ... I'll be saying more than I know...

Come t'think of it, there's been a Helluva lot THAT goin' on in Washington these past few years ....

Dave

 

[Boyd]

As for roads that become ribbed due to traffic, the road and highway engineers usually used the term "corrugated"

Interesting... my dad used the term "washboard" to describe this effect.

 

[wis bang]

Interesting... my dad used the term "washboard" to describe this effect.

Same difference. In the 60's I used to see my father removing washboard sections of asphalt w/ a Littleford 'plainer-grader' a kerosene burning monster that melted the top few inches of the asphalt & graded it off.

It pre-dates the new 'milling' machines they now use to grind it away which is a much better way to handle it. The melted material required it to be handled like fresh hotmix asphalt; the tools, loader bucket & dump trucks needed a coating of diesel fuel to keep it from sticking where todays cold millings won't stick to everything.

 

[bobpbx]

Back in the early 60s there was an article in Scientific American on the topic.

Damn Dave, you have quite a memory!

 

[uuglypher]

Damn Dave, you have quite a memory!

Yeah, Bob; i pretty much remember anything I've ever read, or maybe just that I've read it ... 'cept that which I've forgotten ... or forgotten that I've read .... Hell, right now... I'm havin' trouble rememberin' how this sentence started ...?

Dave

 

[woodjin]

This past Saturday I took my motorcycle out to the great swamp. I was heading through the smaller roads that lead off of west mill rd. These roads, if you can still call them that, are pretty tough going due to water and mud holes. I was on a particularly tough road when I came across the remains of an ancient corduroy road. The remains were only visable where the still existing road veered off a bit. The old road disapeared into swamp on either side of the old cut cedar trees. I usually don't bring my camera on the bike and this trip was no exception. This area is very inaccessable but if I get out there again soon I'll take a picture. I know this is an old topic but thought it might be of some interest.

Hey Dave, I had to wonder if your Dad hadn't come acrossed this road in his travels.

Jeff

 

[uuglypher]

Hey Dave, I had to wonder if your Dad hadn't come acrossed this road in his travels.

Jeff-

I'd sure like to think he did, but in fact, of course, I've no idea...
But I'd be real eager to see some pics of that corduroy road if you get around to taking them !

Dave

 

[Teegate]

Whenever they cut cedar trees, or any group of tree for that matter, and it is swampy or there is a stream, they lay the timbers down to make a road.

I have walked in the swamp in the below photo and the trees are still there.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/aao.jpg

I also have a photo of a tree lined stream that Bob and I found which I will look for.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

Bob,

What outing was it when you and I found that stream that was completly lined with logs? I believe we were with others, but you and I had branched off.

EDIT: Was it the second Mt. Misery at the algae?

Guy

 

[Bill Watson]

Spong

My recollection of my father using the term "spong" hs always in connection with a fairly small -- couple of acres -- bowl-like damp spot in the woods. Not savanna or meadow, but the water table would be high and there'd be tall huckleberries and other brush among the trees. Might actually get your feet wet there some parts of the year. A slough had more length to it; he'd say "go down the other side of the slough and I'll go through the middle of it and we'll see what comes out." (Deer hunting, of course.)

I think corduroy roads originally had some kind of turf or dirt or bough top to them. Makes sense -- have to keep the horse pulling the wagon from stepping through. What we see now is just the bigger pieces that survive.

I can recall these roads down into the Dennis Creek cedar swamps where the cedar was still being cut, back in the 1950s and 1960s. These weren't permanent roads, though, just enough platform to let the logger get his truck in close to the job. Serious ones were in several layers; these ones were all just unmarketable logs laid out as stringers and crosspieces.

My first post here. Glad I found this place. Not many places you can find a discussion about spongs.

Bill Watson
Piney in exile
Stroudsburg, Pa.

 

[Teegate]

My first post here. Glad I found this place. Not many places you can find a discussion about spongs.

Glad to see you enjoy Ben's site. Thanks for posting.

guy

 

[bobpbx]

Bob,

What outing was it when you and I found that stream that was completly lined with logs? I believe we were with others, but you and I had branched off.

EDIT: Was it the second Mt. Misery at the algae?

Guy

Not sure I know exactly which one you are thinking of Guy. I have walked on many, many corduroy roads. Some memorable ones are Oswego River just north of Warren Grove, Pine Plains Branch by that cabin the Nature Conservancy bought, Cedar Creek upstream from Bamber, Factory Branch out by the old fire tower, North Branch of Forked River where Cliff Frazee's son still cuts cedar, and others I can't remember. Also, remember that the trail to the Swamp Monster is a corduroy road (Ben is correct).