Whoa!!! Wait a minute my friend. I think you have it all wrong....Here comes the harsh part - Your statement is proof you have absolutely no hunting or trapping experience and you should not put your opinion in print as such. I'm a hunter and a trapper.
I wouldn't say full.
You wouldn't find many saplings in a mature cedar swamp due to the lack of sunlight at ground level.
Not true. I know of an area that has alot of young cedar. It was logged off in the 80's. I have been watching them grow. The area has never had a fence.
young cedar all the way to the mature cedar.
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I know the area you of speak of, GermanG is spot on. I wouldn't consider that area unbroken forest. Go west of the Parkway.
Chris
Why do you need a fence to grow cedars? It seems Mother Nature did a great job? She did not need a fence to keep the deer away. It seems she grew alot cedar trees. Yes I know a fence is put up after logging cedars so the seedlings can get a better chance to grow. One problem is that some of those areas are choked with cedar growth and the trees can not have space to grow properly. The fact is I see cedar seedlings all over the pines. They seem to be doing very good without a fence.
Ask Dr DeVito or Dr. Zimmermann
Mike, you are a respected artist, and Emile and the good Dr. Zimmermann are well-respected in their environmental fields, but I highly doubt they will tell us that it is an absolute must to have a fence for cedar to regenerate. I have been in areas where deer do not even care to venture due to the terrain (spring holes, fallen cedar, river crossings). I was in the Chamberlin Branch two weeks ago and was amazed at the amount of cedar generation since the 1995 fire. The amount of new growth in a square yard is staggering, and the size is from 1 foot to 8 feet tall. See photo below.
Be careful with these blanket statements you make. You need to humble yourself just a tad, and you'll make more friends on this website. After all, no one is always right about everything.
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Today I spent 5 hours doing stream assessments on an upper tributary of BTC and walked through 2 decent sized cedar stands, lots of big trees, lots of deer tracks, not one small cedar.
Whoa!!! Wait a minute my friend. I think you have it all wrong. Trappers do not cut the heads off any animal and leave the carcass in the woods to feed the rest of the animals. We take the hides and use the meat. Why in the world would we leave the hyde behind? That makes no sense as procuring the hyde is the main part of trapping.
Here comes the harsh part - Your statement is proof you have absolutely no hunting or trapping experience and you should not put your opinion in print as such. I'm a hunter and a trapper. I hunt for the meat to feed my family; which they enjoy the fruits of my labor. I have not ONE animal hanging on the wall, nor do I choose to. So I take very much offense to your statement about hunting and trapping. Without hunters or trappers you might as well open up the book of diseases and pick any one you would like to get.
Also, the 150' rule will help cull the herds that are nuisance deer that are free range in your back yard. You may also want to clear up your statement by regurgitating the rule as it is written. To summarize: The rule is for archery ONLY and the hunter must have WRITTEN permission from the home/dwelling owner and it must be on hand while hunting. Another important part you left out is you have to be elevated and shooting down towards the ground.
I think Bob's opinion is well within the range of reason. He did find this pile of coyote. Believing that reducing coyote #'s would increase the deer population seems like the most obvious motivation for the person or people that did this. I also know a hunter who told me that his companions said they would shoot any coyote on sight for the same reason.
this is not a reflection of hunters and trappers in general but a reflection of SOME hunters and trappers that do not understand the predator/prey dynamic and who are themselves somewhat selfish. I don't think Bob was implying that this was a problem with hunting and trapping fundamentally in the pine barrens. It was only his last sentance that could possibly be misunderstood in that context.
For the most part, I am under the impression that hunting and trapping is largely supported by the people posting on this forum including myself (although I am neither).
Jeff
Remember the dead coyotes I found in Greenwood, one with the head cut off? I do believe there is a guy trapping them and doing that. I'd rather see a natural population of deer culled by coyote than promotion of hunting on sundays and within 150 feet of homes. Maybe this is a case where coyote trappers are causing the deer population to increase.
Today I spent 5 hours doing stream assessments on an upper tributary of BTC and walked through 2 decent sized cedar stands, lots of big trees, lots of deer tracks, not one small cedar.
Mike, you are a respected artist, and Emile and the good Dr. Zimmermann are well-respected in their environmental fields, but I highly doubt they will tell us that it is an absolute must to have a fence for cedar to regenerate. I have been in areas where deer do not even care to venture due to the terrain (spring holes, fallen cedar, river crossings). I was in the Chamberlin Branch two weeks ago and was amazed at the amount of cedar generation since the 1995 fire. The amount of new growth in a square yard is staggering, and the size is from 1 foot to 8 feet tall. See photo below.
Be careful with these blanket statements you make. You need to humble yourself just a tad, and you'll make more friends on this website. After all, no one is always right about everything.
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You may have a point, but if it were the deer I don't think you would have seen those big trees/ cause there been deer in the woods for a looooooooong time
The BTC is not everywhere though, even though I'm unfamiliar with that acronym. Here is what I would have expected you to say:...."Yeah Bob, you may have a point. I really did not mean everywhere....I should have qualified that to say "everywhere I've been".
Big Timber Creek.
No, the white tail deer was almost hunted to extinction in NJ by the late 1800's.
The deer population in NJ is now larger than it has ever been.
Oh, cool. What is that like as far as flora goes? I have never been there. I'd imagine more of the inner coastal plain plants start to dominate.