$9.7 million to preserve 5,000 acres of woodlands and wetlands

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
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I was actually going to chime in last night that many of those species don't exist on that land. Def no timbers, prob no pine snakes and the pbtf aren't abundant. I guess there is a remote chance of timbers but there is not a whole lot of records recently below the mullica.
Have you been ferrying rattlers across the Mullica again Chris? I told you they can swim:)
 

Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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I like how they try to make it look like they are giving it to the public out of the goodness of their hearts.They are selling it to the public for 9.7 million dollars,that is why the public is getting it.
Yeah, I also noticed that. They got around $2,000/acre. Probably not too bad since much of it wasn't buildable anyway. And who knows, maybe the family needed the money - $9.7m can pay a lot of bills. :) But where else are you going to find big parcels of 2000 and 3000 acres? That's what makes this so unique. Penn State forest is only 3300 acres.

At least this wasn't like the many "open space" deals where the state pays a landowner not to sell their farm. That prevents the area from being developed but doesn't allow any public access.
 

Gibby

Piney
Apr 4, 2011
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Trenton
At least this wasn't like the many "open space" deals where the state pays a landowner not to sell their farm. That prevents the area from being developed but doesn't allow any public access.
Bingo! Boyd, this has been my argument against labeling certain parcels of land as open space. Preserved farm land is just that farm land, while open space should be open and accessible to the public.
 

skip3

Explorer
Nov 21, 2009
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cc tx, Green Bank Nj
At least this wasn't like the many "open space" deals where the state pays a landowner not to sell their farm. That prevents the area from being developed but doesn't allow any public access.
I think preserved farmland is a little different. I believe the state purchases the building rights to the property and not the property itself so it remains private property.
 

Boyd

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Of course it's different, which is what I was pointing out. I would much rather see money expended to provide publicly accessible land. We've had this discussion before and I'm not going there again because it gets into politics. ;)
 

skip3

Explorer
Nov 21, 2009
213
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cc tx, Green Bank Nj
I don't see it as politics, gives the state another option to lock down a property that someone isn't ready to sell yet. When they do sell it who would want to buy it but the state anyway.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
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camden county
Al, I wish they were south of the mullica and I'm sure there are a few but probably not doing that well. As you know there was a huge pop down by you but 55 wiped them out for most part.
 

c1nj

Explorer
Nov 19, 2008
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The Cape May County Museum has a stuffed one which was found in Cape May Courthouse many years ago. That is as far south as the Pinelands go and is 20 miles south of Lenape property. There is also a live one but its in the zoo.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
7,474
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millville nj
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yes they use to find rattlers every summer right up into the 80's in the bluffs of Union Lake and they came south from the dens up by the Vineland sewer plant.When they put 55 through there in the early 70's rattlers and pines started becoming DOR at that very spot crossing to the Maurice swamp so they could follow that south to the bluffs. I once caught a 6.5 ft pine snake sunning on the shoulder (east side) of 55 between Sherman and Landis.I was 14 so that was about 78.Turned him loose in the Maurice river swamp south of Sherman,Probably got hit later recrossing to the dens.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,353
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camden county
Someone told me there was a newspaper article about over 100 DOR rattlers after 55 was built. Seems like a stretch. I was also told that it was the second biggest den in SJ prior. Regulations today wouldn't allow that to happen, ashame it did then.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
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Thanks Dogg.I have read this before.I wonder why they put it under Downe twp when Mauricetown is well withing Commercial twp lines?Perhaps it was Downe back then?.This kind of behavior against snakes makes me sick.I doubt snakes had a single friend back then and very few now.I guess a world without snakes,birds of prey,bears and any other predators seems like a paradise to some.I think it makes a more interesting world when you know that there are other things out there that demand a little respect besides your own species.Now yellowjackets and fire ants could be exterminated from the face of the earth and I wouldn't shed a tear but I suppose they even have a few friends out there that would beg to differ.
While researching my geneaology I came upon a direct ancestor I believe about an eleventh generation back grandparent by the name of John Fenwick.I thought great! What a coincidence I am related to the original (white) owner of Cumberland county! This was a huge coincidence since I was tracing Moms line which goes back to WV then KY and then Va and NC and then i traced it back to De and eastern shore Md.I soon realized that my John Fenwick was not the owner of Cumberland/Salem county but was his cousin who originally owned Fenwick Island Delaware.I have the original deed to fFnwick Island in my files.I thought perhaps I might find a family stone in the deed I could go out and locate but alas,they were a big fan of hatchet marks and stumps to mark corners back then.fat chance of finding a hatchet blaze over 300 years old:-(.So I am related distantly to THE John fenwick but not directly descended from him.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
7,474
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millville nj
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Would love to see a pic of the covered bridge they mention over Manumuskin creek.The original lime/coquina shell abutments of the bridge are still visible under the sw wing if you follow the short dirt road down to the creek that is a good canoe put in.Most of the abutments have been covered by concrete but you can still see the original.I have found Elizabeth Bodleys grave,the original stone is unmarked sandstone but someone a long time ago put another sandstone in next to it with an inscription with her initials.There are also two hidden graveyards with Port Elizabeth.One an old black graveyard just has a few pieces of inscribed tombstones lying around in an old teenager party spot.They used them to surround the fire.I also found one of these stones out at Jones Mill gravel operation where there was an old settlement.Almost all of the area has been destroyed but I found one old tombstone of the same kind out there lying on the ground.Also there is a stoneless baptist cemetery still surrounded by a dilapidated old fence that has many sunk in holes but no stones left.That was the white cemetery.It has honeysuckle carpeting the area now.There is also an old catholic cemtery basically in someones yard in Port Elizabeth.Most of the stones have sunk in the ground till only the tops are visible.You can check it out but it is like your walking in a persons yard.