Albino Squirel

NJSnakeMan

Explorer
Jun 3, 2004
332
0
33
Atlantic County
Yesterday i was riding my bike and from the corner of my eye i saw a white rodent. I turned back and it was an Albino Squirel. Completely white with pink eyes. Unfortiently i did not have my camera with me but I am going to go look for it again. Do Gray Squirels usually stay in certain limits of there nests? Hope i find it again.
 

Stu

Explorer
Feb 19, 2004
466
3
42
White Haven, PA
www.stuofdoom.com
I saw a black squirrel 2-3 years ago on the roadside. I had to go by a few times to confirm what it was. Its hair was long and almost Sasquatch-looking. Only one I've ever seen. Never seen an albino though.
 

uuglypher

Explorer
Jun 8, 2005
381
18
Estelline, SD
A white (albino?)squirrel and a black (melanistic) squirrel?
If these turn you on, boat, canoe, or skate the Rideau canal systen between Kingston and Ottowa, Ontario. There is a region (near a resort hotel, the name of which I can't remeber, but where I stopped for a cooked dinner during a canoe trip) along that canal where most of the "grey squirrels" are, in fact, either albino or melanistic. I recall about even numbers of each. A really grey "grey" squirrel in that area occasions more comment than white or black varieties!
 

wis bang

Explorer
Jun 24, 2004
235
2
East Windsor
uuglypher said:
A white (albino?)squirrel and a black (melanistic) squirrel?
If these turn you on, boat, canoe, or skate the Rideau canal systen between Kingston and Ottowa, Ontario. There is a region (near a resort hotel, the name of which I can't remeber, but where I stopped for a cooked dinner during a canoe trip) along that canal where most of the "grey squirrels" are, in fact, either albino or melanistic. I recall about even numbers of each. A really grey "grey" squirrel in that area occasions more comment than white or black varieties!

We used to stay & fish in Ontario off the Rideau, off the Beverlies, at a small group of cottages named 'shawmere' on Red Horse lake; east of Sealey's bay. Saw alot of black 'grey' squirrels. My grandfather started visiting up there in the 40's and they always remeber seeing them in that area.

You'll find the black ones are abundant in NJ. Just visit Palmer square and/or anyplace on the Princeton campus. We have them here in East Windsor too!

I can't remember the last time I saw a red squirrel; I guess the grey's have wiped them out.
 

Bobbleton

Explorer
Mar 12, 2004
466
46
NJ
wis bang said:
I can't remember the last time I saw a red squirrel; I guess the grey's have wiped them out.

There are still a few populations of them around. I usually see them every few trips to Double Trouble and Colliers. The easiest way to find them is that they get really noisy upon approach.

-Bob
 

uuglypher

Explorer
Jun 8, 2005
381
18
Estelline, SD
I'd suspect that the gradual interspersion of oaks into the once predominantly pine forest of the southeastern coastal plain has been the stimulus for incursion of the more successfully competitive grey squirrels and the consequent reduction of the red populations. In general, where solid coniferous forests persist, so do red squirrels.

Then again, I have to wonder what role the marginally invasive grey squirrels have played (over the last few thousand years or so) in initiating and maintaining the incursion of oaks into the scrub pine forest...given their penchant for collecting and stashing acorns 'n'all...

on the other hand ...

Oh Hell... at some point the rationale and history of a regions ecological relationships can, I suppose, become a bit speculative .... and I may have passed that point ...or... perhaps ... on the other hand ...

Best t'y'all,
Dave
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,341
327
Near Mt. Misery
I see red squirrels quite frequently in the woods. The deeper I am the higher the likelyhood of spotting a red instead of grey squirrel. I am surprised by the comments to the contrary. They are noisey.

Dave, I doubt the grey squirrels have had a significant impact on the oak/pine dynamic in the barrens. I havn't conducted a study on it of course, but I would doubt the population of grey squirrels are high enough to have seriously affected the balance. Controlled burning and wild fires have contributed most significantly to the pine dominant forest of present day.

Jeff
 

NJSnakeMan

Explorer
Jun 3, 2004
332
0
33
Atlantic County
out of curiosity. Why are you more likely to see Gray Squirels in a suburb then in actual woods? Whenever i go out in the Pine's or the Woods i might only see a couple squirels, if not none. Around my town i see a million every day. Anyone know why is that?
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,341
327
Near Mt. Misery
Hmmm...good question. I don't know exactly why that is. I could guess: 1)mature oak trees are more common in the suburbs due to lack of fire and mature oak tress produce more acorns.2)Less predators like snakes and hawks and owls (although I might be wrong, cats). 3)mature oak trees make for better nesting opportunities. I'm just guessing.

Jeff
 

uuglypher

Explorer
Jun 8, 2005
381
18
Estelline, SD
Jeff-
You wrote:"I doubt the grey squirrels have had a significant impact on the oak/pine dynamic in the barrens."

And I would agree with you if we were to consider the "Pine Barrens" to be, collectively, a homogeneous biome, which, of course, couldn't be further from the truth of what the "pines" really are.

Your observation about finding red squirrels more frequently than greys the "deeper" you are (into the pines, I presume) speaks specifically to this point. It was my supposition back in the 60s (before I'd learned much about squirrel biology) that the reds persisted best in the regions where pines predominated almost to the exclusion of scrub oaks, and that as I got into areas where oaks began to reach parity with pines, greys were observed increasing frequency.

So the question occurs: what are the factors that favor incursion of oaks into previously predominantly pine climax forest? Fire? Soil pH? Water table? Certainly. And what about natural dispersants of acorns? They say "...the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree" True. So how do they wind up outside the the "drip line", the limits of the canopy of oaks?

Turn out that grey squirrels, with their preference for hardwood forests, have a penchant for caching mast - including acorns - at a distance from where they originally found it, and are thus important dispersers of the oak species ( and hickory and walnut as well...).

Red squirrels, with their appetite for conifer seeds, especially pine nuts, prefer coniferous forests and are definitely less common in hardwood forests. And as for the pine nuts they find? They tend to eat 'em where they find 'em and are not a significant disperser thereof.

Further north y'go, there's fewer and fewer deciduous forests. I've enjoyed watching the little red squirrels in the boreal pine forests and even in the taiga at the tundra's edge in Alaska and the Yukon - and nary a big ol' grey to be seen!

So, as fires open up the forest floor to re-seeding, are oaks, on balance, favored in the repopulation scheme-of-things? As folks around here in eastern South Dakota would say: "Ya sure, You betcha!"

This red squirrel-grey squirrel / pine-oak inter-relation is, to me, just one tiny component of the myriad relationships that contribute to what the Pine Barrens are and to the fascination that they hold for any observer of nature.

Ye Gads - I just re-read this. I do tend to ramble. Sorry 'bout that.

Dave

woodjin said:
I see red squirrels quite frequently in the woods. The deeper I am the higher the likelyhood of spotting a red instead of grey squirrel. I am surprised by the comments to the contrary. They are noisey.

Dave, I doubt the grey squirrels have had a significant impact on the oak/pine dynamic in the barrens. I havn't conducted a study on it of course, but I would doubt the population of grey squirrels are high enough to have seriously affected the balance. Controlled burning and wild fires have contributed most significantly to the pine dominant forest of present day.

Jeff
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,341
327
Near Mt. Misery
Dave,
Your point is very well stated! It has long been theorized that the pine barrens would become oak dominant if fire was non-existant, or infrequent in the region. My understanding is that the theory is based on the strain of pitch pine that produces a cone extremely resilient to heat/fire. Therefore allowing it to procreate while oaks and their acorns have demised. Much of the controlled burning that takes place is based on this principle. Whenever I go past a patch of oak dominated forest I immeditely think "hasn't been a fire here in awhile". In that mind set that fire is the most significant factor in the pine vs oak interaction I concede that I overlooked that there are certainly other factors in play. The squirrel factor inparticular. It does raise interest into how squirrel activity factors into the successfulness, and growth rate of oak dominant forest. Also the conifer/decidious balance especially in areas not affected by fire for sometime. And the general dispersement of oak in the barrens in general. Significance has many levels I suppose.

"they say, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree", I thought that was apples? LOL

Jeff
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,341
327
Near Mt. Misery
Did you ever notice when someone uses a word that you think you've never heard before, then all of a sudden you start hearing that word all over the place. Did you ever have that happen? I think red squirrels are kind of like that.

Jeff
 

uuglypher

Explorer
Jun 8, 2005
381
18
Estelline, SD
Hey, Jeff-
I just saw your comment from June 24th - hadn't realized I'd missed it. Good points about fire-resistant cones of some of the pines. I wasn't aware of that, but certainly have long been aware that without fire the pine barrens, in their various forms, wouldn't exist. On every trip I've made in the pines since the late 50s I've noticed some new area that has re-entered and started to re-group following the conflagration stage of the cycle of the "pines." I'd love to have a really perceptive forest dendrologist/ecologist who has studied the PBs from that perspective put in his or her two cents - or more - into this discussion. We've probably just begun to scrtch the surface of comprehending all that make the pines "the pines".

And I can't tell you how good it feels to find so many folks in these forums who care so much about it all.

Dave
 
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