Am I a Piney Now?

Teegate

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I posted the article in the Pine Barren History Shorts thread.

BTW, it may have just been a water tank. I called it a tower.
 

dennis2

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Sep 22, 2020
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Can't seem to find that article in the Pine Barrens History Shorts thread (but I found a lot of other amazing info!). But I WILL find that tank/tower foundation!!!!
 

Boyd

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Can't seem to find that article in the Pine Barrens History Shorts thread

I don't see it either, but I might be confused about which article Guy is talking about. However, Guy started a private conversation with several of us that included an article. Maybe that's what he was thinking of?
 
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Boyd

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Speaking of Ed's property, my friend and I had the pleasure of meeting him when our car got stuck farther west on Oswego rd near the cranberry bogs. The pine flies were horrendous as we walked back to Ed's to ask for 2 shovels. He walked back with us and helped. This was the '69 or '70 era. The farm may have once had pigs and chickens but when we were there, he was raising turkeys and so to this day I refer to it as the "turkey farm"

Just noticed, the 1980's aerials show the buildings intact at this farm. Did the State knock them down when they acquired the land? They are gone in the 1995 aerials.

Screen Shot 2021-04-11 at 8.51.14 PM.png

 
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Teegate

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Ed purchased it on April 6, 1966 but may have been renting the property before that. The state purchased it from his executor on May 22, 1978.
 
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dennis2

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Sep 22, 2020
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+/- 10 feet would be +/- 3 meters. That would be excellent GPS accuracy from any consumer GPS device, I suspect it's actually a lot worse than that. You could get better results with an external bluetooth receiver that sends data to the phone. These cost about $100 for the Garmin GLO on up to over $5000 for really accurate devices from SXBlue. Some discussion of that topic here:

Still trying to really pin down these property corners. I was on the verge of buying a Garmin GLO but finally was able to convince a friend who has access to a Trimble GeoXH GPS to go with me to my property to join in the search. I was hoping to get some expert help/advice on coordinates before we go.

Both the map at https://online.boydsmaps.com/#17/39.67713/-74.45876/parcels and also on my Onx Hunt software are giving me the following coordinates for the corners: 39.677256, -74.458723; 39.677048, -74.458815; 39.677015, -74.458713. Does these seem accurate? I was surprised that both sources agree with each other exactly but confused that they don’t measure out to the line distances called out on the tax map survey (http://www.bassriver-nj.org/uploads/3/7/8/5/37857841/26.pdf), which are 50 feet, 80 feet, and 90 feet. Any thoughts?

Pretty much out of my league here!
 

Boyd

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My map doesn't have enough resolution to accurately measure distances as small as your property. The source data that was used to create the map was not survey grade and not good enough for that either. I think you need a surveyor. :)
 
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Teegate

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Still trying to really pin down these property corners. I was on the verge of buying a Garmin GLO but finally was able to convince a friend who has access to a Trimble GeoXH GPS to go with me to my property to join in the search. I was hoping to get some expert help/advice on coordinates before we go.

Both the map at https://online.boydsmaps.com/#17/39.67713/-74.45876/parcels and also on my Onx Hunt software are giving me the following coordinates for the corners: 39.677256, -74.458723; 39.677048, -74.458815; 39.677015, -74.458713. Does these seem accurate? I was surprised that both sources agree with each other exactly but confused that they don’t measure out to the line distances called out on the tax map survey (http://www.bassriver-nj.org/uploads/3/7/8/5/37857841/26.pdf), which are 50 feet, 80 feet, and 90 feet. Any thoughts?

Pretty much out of my league here!
Have you found any evidence of any property corners around you?
 

Teegate

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You must remember that Shamong Road is 66 feet wide. So if Shamong Road just happened to be exactly centered your property would start 33 feet from the center of the road.

Again, these are the lots around you. You can see that Block 101 Lot 11 has a corner in the center of the road. There may be a metal rod underground there so if you have a metal detector you may find it if one is there. Just don't get caught using it :)

Screen Shot 2021-04-16 at 6.04.38 PM.png
 
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dennis2

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Sep 22, 2020
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Deptford, NJ
My map doesn't have enough resolution to accurately measure distances as small as your property. The source data that was used to create the map was not survey grade and not good enough for that either. I think you need a surveyor. :)
A survey would be awesome, but I'm sure that would be expensive. My good wife would rightfully kick me to the couch! Gonna have to stick with dogged determination and the expectation of some kind of dumb luck.
 
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dennis2

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Sep 22, 2020
32
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Deptford, NJ
You must remember that Shamong Road is 66 feet wide. So if Shamong Road just happened to be exactly centered your property would start 33 feet from the center of the road.

Again, these are the lots around you. You can see that Block 101 Lot 11 has a corner in the center of the road. There may be a metal rod underground there so if you have a metal detector you may find it if one is there. Just don't get caught using it :)

View attachment 15231
It’s been a pretty tough winter but I’m back on the case!

The 66 foot road width is a good clue! And that seems to be close to the measurement from the road center to the northernmost corner. I figure if I can find one corner with any kind of certainty (the huge hope would be a pin!), then the rest could be found with measurements. In any event, both the northern and eastern corners should be about 33 feet from the center of the road. (My guess is that the road hasn’t moved a whole lot in the past many years. That may be incorrect but it’s not a bad starting assumption.)

I don’t think I understand what you mean when you say that the corner for Block 101 Lot 11 would be in the middle of the road. From the tax maps, it looks like my property is the southwestern corner of that lot, cut off by Shamong Road, and kicked over to Block 103E. Wouldn’t that put the Lot 11 corners 33 feet on the opposite side of the road as well?

You referenced a “state corner” in an earlier post. With this better GPS that I borrowed that might be “findable”. But then I would need a good measurement from there to my most southern corner. It would be nice to have a plat or good copy of the survey to scale some measurements from! If I find that corner I'll take a best guess dimension and go from there.
 

Boyd

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Well, I have already provided the necessary disclaimers and this is worth every penny you've paid for it (nothing). To paraphrase and old saying, anybody who makes a map of their own property has a fool for a surveyor. :D

But here is your lot as depicted in the NJDEP Tax Parcel Database. They make it quite clear that this is not survey grade data. This is zoomed WAY IN at a scale of 1:100 with State Plane projection. Obviously this doesn't match your measurements, but this as accurate as we can get with public data.

dennis.png
 

dennis2

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Sep 22, 2020
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Did you get a deed and survey map when you bought the property?I
I did get a deed, a pitiful thing printed out on 8-1/2 x 11. Not at all what I was hoping for, which was more along the lines of a gilded document with a lot of scrollwork, suitable for framing. But it’s legally binding and recorded with the county. But there was no survey, which was no surprise given that I paid the princely sum of $100 for the property. And I didn’t want to push anything. I set the sale up just before the Covid lockdowns began last year so I was probably more of a pain in the butt than anyone wanted to deal with. To her credit, Ms. Somes, the Bass River Township Clerk who handled the transaction, was super professional and accommodating and I was grateful enough for all of her help and patience to not ask questions that I was pretty sure I already knew the answer to.
 
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dennis2

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Sep 22, 2020
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Deptford, NJ
Well, I have already provided the necessary disclaimers and this is worth every penny you've paid for it (nothing). To paraphrase and old saying, anybody who makes a map of their own property has a fool for a surveyor. :D

But here is your lot as depicted in the NJDEP Tax Parcel Database. They make it quite clear that this is not survey grade data. This is zoomed WAY IN at a scale of 1:100 with State Plane projection. Obviously this doesn't match your measurements, but this as accurate as we can get with public data.

View attachment 15232
Wow!! This is amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time on this! And the disclaimer is noted. The coordinates, while a lot more precise, are pretty much what your map and Onx Hunt indicate.

And yes, while I’ve done many foolish things, I’m not fool enough to think that I could come any where near what a surveyor could. My favorite old saying is “Every man his own trade” and it’s pretty clear that this very much applies here.

I’m in it for the fun and the thinly veiled excuse for another trip to the Pines. And also the small glimpse into things that I don’t know anything about, like maps and surveying. I’d really like to meet a surveyor with a sense of humor and ask them a million questions!

Next chance I get, I’m going down there and give it my best shot!!
 
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Boyd

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The coordinates, while a lot more precise, are pretty much what your map and Onx Hunt indicate.

That's what I'd expect, since this is the source data that was used for my maps and Onx probably used the same. The coordinates aren't really "more precise", I just didn't bother to round them off. Here in the Pines, six decimal places have a precision of about four inches. That is obviously much more precise than anything you're going to get from a GPS so the additional decimal places are really meaningless. AFAIK, all of Garmin's devices only show 5 decimal places.
 
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