Thanks, but that picture of the judges shack is my son Kevins. It took first place in a national photo contest for state parks. He and the park each received a very nice matted and framed copy of it, plus some cash
Back from the dead with a question...Anyone camp/explore Delaware Water Gap NRA?
- Thread starter Badfish740
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Thanks, but that picture of the judges shack is my son Kevins. It took first place in a national photo contest for state parks. He and the park each received a very nice matted and framed copy of it, plus some cash
Thanks a bunch for the background! That's very interesting. The gate is definitely still up, as that pic I posted was from last Sunday.
This is really a mixed-feelings situation for me. The more I've learned about Tocks Island and everything that happened from '65 through the early 70's, the more my sympathies lie with the property owners. The whole thing was a tragedy, and almost nobody knows the story outside of the locals, the NPS, and a few history buffs.
And then on the other hand it would be nice to see the road run through again, and even if that piece of road isn't part of whatever the real Old Mine Road was, I would still bet that it predates Tock Island, and so I think they should take the gate down.
Since we're on the topic of people who managed to keep their land... do you know anything about the Rosenkranzs?
Edit: wow, checked out the pic you linked. Just awesome. That's the thing that breaks my heart every time I go up there and photograph these old properties. These were absolutely beautiful little farms, some of them in the same family for over a hundred years. You can just imagine the heartache up there when the dam project came along. There is a really gorgeous mid-19th century farm off of Mountain Rd. just a bit north of Walpack that is just slowly falling to pieces. Unbelievable.
A paper from the NPS regarding how they proposed to address the aftermath of the Tocks Island debacle. The NPS is now in the process of removing many structures; I think this was discussed in another post some time back.
http://crm.cr.nps.gov/archive/25-03/25-03-6.pdf
A similar mess almost happened with the Driscoll Expressway in the 70's. I don't think they ever got to the point of condeming properties though.
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/ae-driscoll/
http://crm.cr.nps.gov/archive/25-03/25-03-6.pdf
A similar mess almost happened with the Driscoll Expressway in the 70's. I don't think they ever got to the point of condeming properties though.
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/ae-driscoll/
Yeah, I've seen that PDF by Miller before. You can find lots of papers, brochures, plan outlines, and consultanting reports on the NPS website outlining thirty years worth of successive plans for stewardship of the historical buildings they came into possession of. They seem to have spent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on preparing plans. Not much, however, appears to have been spent hiring roofers and painters.
I did not see any freshly demolished properties last Sunday in the north end of the park. If it isn't too rainy this weekend I'll check out the southern areas.
I did not see any freshly demolished properties last Sunday in the north end of the park. If it isn't too rainy this weekend I'll check out the southern areas.
I'm planning on being there Saturday depending on the weather, mostly Old Mine Rd up to the BFB.
Yeah, the weather's looking iffy. I haven't picked out a destination yet but if I go I may walk out Hamilton and see if they knocked down those two old farms out there. I've wanted to get back out there and take some pics with my new camera (the ones I have are from three years ago). If they decide to clean up that area they have a lot to haul out, including an old schoolbus almost completely covered with brush
.MARKBNJ
Sorry but I really don’t know much about the Rosencrantz family. I spent a lot of time there from the late 1970’s until about 1990 because my stepfather belonged to the Overlook Hunting Club which is located in Walpack. The club, which boasted the late Howard Brant (the hunting and fishing editor for the Newark Star-Ledger) as a member, is located on Route 615 just past Haneys Mill on the right side of the road. I just started going back up there since I have gotten into photography.
It annoys me that the NPS can find the funds to bulldoze the buildings but cannot come up with the funds to preserve the structures that have historical significance such as the Shoemaker-Houck Farm which I believe is the one you described on Mountain Road. This farm is on the National Register of Historic Places and is being allowed to fall apart. Here are some photos of the farm from last fall.
I could be wrong but I think that there is only one occupied house on Mountain Road, this being close to where it meets the Little Flatbrook. When I was still hunting and fishing up there the bridge that allowed you to cross the Little Flatbrook was still there. I heard that it washed out in a storm and they could not justify replacing it.
There is another house on Mountain Road that was abandoned not too long ago and its only a matter of time before kids try to burn it down.
Sorry but I really don’t know much about the Rosencrantz family. I spent a lot of time there from the late 1970’s until about 1990 because my stepfather belonged to the Overlook Hunting Club which is located in Walpack. The club, which boasted the late Howard Brant (the hunting and fishing editor for the Newark Star-Ledger) as a member, is located on Route 615 just past Haneys Mill on the right side of the road. I just started going back up there since I have gotten into photography.
It annoys me that the NPS can find the funds to bulldoze the buildings but cannot come up with the funds to preserve the structures that have historical significance such as the Shoemaker-Houck Farm which I believe is the one you described on Mountain Road. This farm is on the National Register of Historic Places and is being allowed to fall apart. Here are some photos of the farm from last fall.
I could be wrong but I think that there is only one occupied house on Mountain Road, this being close to where it meets the Little Flatbrook. When I was still hunting and fishing up there the bridge that allowed you to cross the Little Flatbrook was still there. I heard that it washed out in a storm and they could not justify replacing it.
There is another house on Mountain Road that was abandoned not too long ago and its only a matter of time before kids try to burn it down.
Yep, that's the farm. Great shots! I love shooting there in the afternoon. I've visited the site perhaps five or six times, and had no idea it was on the National Register. It looks like the park has used it for various things over the years, but it is definitely falling apart now. Fortunately it seems to have escaped most of the vandalism that is rampant throughout the rest of the park.
One of my favorite features of the main house is the capstone (for lack of a better word) with the Shoemaker name and the date, which if I recall is 1850-something.
One of my favorite features of the main house is the capstone (for lack of a better word) with the Shoemaker name and the date, which if I recall is 1850-something.
It's just cheaper to raze the buildings thn resotore them. I would hope they save whatever they can, but probably not. Whomever gets the demo contract will have a treasure trove, but probably won't realize it. The NPS is really hurting and not just at the DWG NRA, most of their infrastructure is in dire need of repair, the same can generally be said for NJ state parks. That won;t change anytime soon.
Not sure where you mean, the only road I know of that crosses the LFB is Ennis Rd, which has been closed for a very long time due to the bridge washing out. Do you mean the bridge just downstream of the LFB that crosses the BFB, a spot where trout fishers park? It is right off 615 and connects to MT Rd/Brook Rd.
The only other bridge on the LFB is on 521 up at Layton. There are two bridges (I think) over the BFB that are closed, so perhaps JG is referring to one of those. There is Bridge Rd., just south of Bevans/Peter Valley, and then a little further south Fish and Game Rd., both of which cut from 615 over to Mountain/Brook Rd. The two that I'm aware of that are open are Main St. bridge in Wallpack, and the one connecting to Haney's Mill Rd.
As far as a "treasure trove" is concerned, there is definitely some value in some of these old properties, but I have been in almost all of them over the last few years to take pictures, and there ain't a lot left in most cases. Of course, with some of the older properties just the beams from the barns would be valuable, but in terms of hardware, artifacts, etc., anyone looking for that kind of thing will largely be disappointed, at least with the properties near the public roads. There are a couple of places more off the beaten path that might yield things of interest, but not of much value. For example I have found a reminder for a Dentist's appointment from the early eighties, and a copy of the NYT from the seventies. Not much value, but interesting nonetheless. I leave everything where I find it (well, save for one railroad spike filched from the Lackawanna Cut-off, to which I plead guilty), so those things are still there to be found, anyway.
I read where the NPS closed the bridge at Haneys due to severe erosion and damage after the big flood. Did not know they did repairs and reopened it. Trout fishers were very upset over its closure.
Regarding the treasure, I'm meaning the contruction methods, beams, fastenings, stone work, glass etc. Can't find that in a Home Depot. They should have some yard sales before demo begins; might be able to raise enough money to save a couple.
I recall the state, or someone, did that at Waterloo after the Friends group messed it up.Yes, this is the area I was talking about. According to the maps this is actually Brook Road not Mountain Road. Something I never knew before.
I love history, so it bothers me to see historic places be neglected regardless of whether it is the DWG or the Pine Barrens. I can't understand why they weren't able to lease more properties to people like they did with the Delaware View House.
Tell your son that his photography is excellent !
I'm afraid things might have changed with Delaware House too. When I went by last week the place looked deserted and there was yellow barrier tape wrapped around the front steps. Usually they would be getting ready for the season.
The NPS lease terms weren't what you'd call attractive. You had to agree to spend a minimum of five or six figures on renovation, and meet all sorts of guidelines, at the end of which you owned nothing, and had all the costs of ongoing maintenance. It's essentially a donation program for the labor and costs necessary to fix and maintain some of the more important structures, with the main benefactors getting to live in/use the property. I don't know how many deals they closed, but I haven't noticed a swell of activity.
Might take a look at Camp Taylor near Hainsurg off of Rt 94. They love dogs; they also run the Lakota Wolf Preserve
I have only visited the wolf preserve, never camped there.I use Harmony Ridge loated in Branchville when I go up in the Spring and Fall. Was there last weekend . Basically a no frills kind of place. Lots of seasonals but plenty of sites away from them.
Located on the western side of Stokes State Forest. Open year round, whatever ultilities you like, no problem wiith tenters and easy access to everything up that way. Only issue may be that there is lots of sulphur in the well water which takes a little getting used to in when taking a shower.
I did check out one up near Walpack, Beaver something or other I think, they don't advertise much and was a bit rough around the edges for my taste when I toured it last week.
Might take a look at Camp Taylor near Hainsurg off of Rt 94. They love dogs; they also run the Lakota Wolf Preserve
Camp Taylor was our first choice, but I was confused about their pet policy. I thought they meant no pets at the RV sites but on second look maybe they meant only in their rental RV's. I will be bringing my own RV. I will give them a call.
Thanks,
Ed
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