Camcorders

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
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camden county
Is anyone knowledgable about camcorders, I was looking to buy a good camcorder for shooting wildlife. I want one with a built in hardrive. I'm just wondering if anyone is a expert in this area, and could offer any advice. Is HD neccesary? Where is the technology heading(I would like to get one that is cutting edge). Im looking at the canon HG10, or the sony HDR-SR5. Thanks
Chris
 

omega

Explorer
Is HD necessary? good question. It depends upon your final usage. If you are going to be producing for other people then I would say yes. If only for yourself that SD would be fine.

At work I use a Sony DSR250. At home, I stay behind the times. I still shoot with a Sony VX3 Hi-8 camcorder. I was poking around the other day and liked what I saw of the JVC Everio 60 gig hard drive HD camcorder. Street price is about $1400.

At the moment I only produce at home for myself and a few special projects where the content is more important that the hardware. I would never suggest specific gear to anyone, as their needs are unique, as is their budget. I haven't decided yet when I will go HD. At work, which is a corporate environment SD is still a viable solution.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,531
242
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camden county
Thanks BillMecca, I think I'm leaning towards the HD camera. I really want a camera that shoots good video at night, as much of my amphibian encounters such as pine barrens treefrogs will be at night. I want to use the video for my nieces and nephew to watch as they love nature. I really want something that is current and am willing to spend around 1200 dollars.
 

Bobbleton

Explorer
Mar 12, 2004
466
46
NJ
chris if you buy that hd camcorder you're automatically invited to every outing i go on.

which okay . . . granted it was basically already true . . . but now you're EXTRA invited.
 

omega

Explorer
I looked into it a bit deeper and while I still stand by my initial response to the JVC, it has a great feel to its build quality,( I did not get to shoot with it) but after reading some reviews, the Canon H20, while flimsy in feel, shoots better video and costs less. so reading reviews is a good thing ;-)
 

Boyd

Administrator
Staff member
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
9,560
2,810
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Hey dragoncjo. In a parallel universe I'm one of the moderators at DVinfo.net. You might want to visit our consumer HD camera forums here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=132

I don't have much experience with this kind of camera, I shoot with a Sony HVR-Z1 HDV camera mostly now, but also have a Sony VX-2000 and a PDX-10 which is on loan to a friend in Greece. I can tell you that just about all high definition camcorders have LESS sensitivity to light than a standard definition camcorder with the same sized chips. The smaller pixels on the HD chips just aren't as sensitive - it's a tradeoff you need to consider when making your choice.

The "gold standard" for a consumer camera to be used in dark places is the Sony DCR VX-2100, which is a minor update to the VX-200 which I own: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/303956-REG/Sony_DCRVX2100_DCR_VX2100_3_CCD_Mini.html

Then there's the PD-170 which is "pro" version of the same camera - it was also a minor upgrade to the previous model, the PD-150. And the DSR-250 which Bill owns actually has the same "guts" as all of these models, but packaged in a larger shoulder-mount form factor. We have a forum devoted to these at DVinfo as well: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Now these might all be more than you want to pay, but if low light is important to you then you aren't going to do much better without paying a LOT more and ending up with a MUCH bigger and heavier camera. I think you will find the VX-2000/VX-2100 has about a two or three f-stop advantage over the consumer HD cameras you're looking at. So that means you would need between 4 to 8 times MORE LIGHT to film with them.

But you might be able to find a good deal on a used VX-2000 or PD-150 if you're willing to take a chance. But be careful, because if you aren't experienced with video equipment you could also get burned on a used camera.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,531
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camden county
Boyd and Bill thanks for the great info. I'm still doing the research and don't want to rush into a relatively big purchase like this. I was leaning towards HD only because I feel like in 1-2 years that is what I will want(eventhough I probably don't neccesarily need it). I want it to be good in low light because many of the areas I will be in have a very closed tree canopy, and I also want to video pine barrens tree frogs which are obviously out at night.

Bob, I will def. take you up on your offer as long as you teach me how to use all the bells and whistles on my canon rebel, and my new camcorder.
 

Boyd

Administrator
Staff member
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
9,560
2,810
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
No problem. I don't think you'll much trouble shooting in the woods during the daytime, but night is another issue. I tend to agree with your sentiment about high definition, but the inexpensive consumer HD cameras all have some limitations. Glad that you aren't rushing into this too fast.

The Sony VX series is really the best if your main priority is low light, but it's somewhat older technology and is what we call a "4:3 native" camcorder. In other words, its sensor is shaped like an older 4:3 TV screen (more square than the newer 16:9 TV's). So if you want to view your videos on a widescreen TV it isn't the best choice. The VX series can shoot video in the 16:9 (widescreen) format, but the quality will not be as good as a "16:9 native" camcorder. All High Definition camcorders are 16:9 native since that's part of the new spec.

Some camcorders may have a night-shot feature which will let you shoot in really dark places while sacrificing picture quality. My Sony Z1 has something called "hypergain" which does this at the expense of adding a lot of "noise" (looks sort of like "snow" on an old TV). But that's a $4,000+ camera and probably much more than you need.

Just about all video and still cameras are sensitive to infra-red however, and you can buy IR lights (although they're expensive): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...arch=yes&O=productlist.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t

Just for fun, to see if your digital camera or camcorder can see infra red light, try this quick test. Turn on your camera, then take your TV remote control, point it at the camera and push some buttons. You will probably see a blue light flashing from the remote if you look on the camera screen, but you won't see anything with your naked eye.
 
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