conspicuous by its absence...?

[uuglypher]

Corn snake...conspicuous by its absence?

With all the wonderful reports and exceptional photos of snakes, lizards, turtles, frogs, and salamanders observed last year and this spring in the PB's, one species that I use to considered it a particular joy to find back in the 50's and 60's has yet to be mentioned or pictured: The corn snake (Elaphe guttata). I never considered them a common species back then, but certainly expected to see a few any season that I spent more than 8 or 10 days in the field. Some corn snake anecdotes:

In '54 or '55 my Dad and I visited the folks (Truman .....?) who lived north of Asa Pittman just up (north) on the other side of the tracks from Asa's place. The wife of that family told me her sister had a baby corn snake she'd sell and gave us directions to her place. When we got there she had two little "corn snakes" in a Mason jar which I bought and took home to feed and observe. In their second year I bacame suspicious that one of them was a melanistic corn snake ... until it later became obvious that it was, in fact, a pilot black snake (black rat snake). The other one grew into quite a respectable corn snake.

In the summer of '56, on my first solo driving trip to the pines with my new driver's license, my first stop, naturally, was at Pittman's. While there I scoped out the tie piles along the rails near and under the rt. 72 overpass within view of Asa's. Some of the ties were pretty punky and in the debris of one I found a little rat snake. Hoping it was a corn snake, I took it home to compare with the other two. It also turned out to be a corn and all three were marked and released in the summer of '57 before I went off to college. Over the years I marked another 5 or 6 corns, but never had a re-capture. The recent discussions and observations of several members of this list have been encouraging about the liklihood that many herp species are rebounding or holding their own in the Pine Barrens. I hope that will be proven to apply to the corn snake as well as the other species so many of you have been seeing and photographing.

Best t'y'all,
Dave

 

[dragoncjo]

I go to a place in cumberland county were they are suppose to be. I've heard that they like railroad ties which this place has. However, I'm not a snake guy and just getting my feet wet so hopefully in the coming years I will come across one. In your expierience what kind of weather do they like? I've heard they're out early in the spring, any truth to this?

 

[bobpbx]

I have never seen one in my life until this year when a guy where I work was holding one for demonstration. Turns out it was from another state. Very nice coloring. So, I should turn over the railroad ties that are tossed on the side of the track?

 

[Bobbleton]

funny you mention this:

In about ten years of exploring NJ specifically looking for animals like the corn snake, I've only found one within the state's boundries. And up until recently it never really occurred to me how much they truly belong here.

For the last few years I've made a habit of exploring other parts of the eastern coastal plain . . . and its astounded me how similar those habitats are to the pine barrens. The flora is similar . . . and the fauna is similar . . with exception to the animals that've been over-exploited in our grand state.

With every animal I've encountered on these trips, the one that always manages to make an appearance is the corn snake. And not just one . . . usually several. This year we saw three. Last year we saw two. and these places are JUST LIKE the pine barrens.

Now like most other things I'd simply assume this was solely due to habitat destruction. And i'm sure a large part of it is, but then this other piece of evidence occurred to me. Corn snakes in every other state are BEAUTIFUL. In NJ . . . eh . . . they're okay i guess.
The melanaistic, mottled, crappy colored NJ corns seem pretty good until you see how striking the corns are in areas where they're more abundant.

I'm going out on a limb here, but wouldn't it make sense that our corns are colored in such a way because those traits for lovely striking brightly-colored snakes were removed (or more appropriatly collected) from the gene pool? I mean . . . its just natural. You don't pick the dark mottled withered flowers . . . you pick the biggest and brightest and most beautiful ones.

In any other state this may not have mattered . . . but once again I refer back to NJ's geographic isolation (its come up so many times) . . . the gene flow is practically nonexistant here. It hasn't been since the delaware forged through. So basically what we have is what we're stuck with. You take away the pretty snakes and none will replace them.

In any case . . its a thought. They're pretty adaptable snakes and should be more common--its a shame that they aren't.

-Bob

 

[woodjin]

Dave, just for clarification, I think you meant route 70 and not route 72 correct?

Jeff

 

[uuglypher]

The melanaistic, mottled, crappy colored NJ corns seem pretty good until you see how striking the corns are in areas where they're more abundant.

-Bob

Beauty, truly, is in the eye of the beholder. I've always considered the bright, yellowish orange and red corns of the southeast coastal plain to be unabashedly garish in comparison with the understated elegance of the New Jersey corns. The Japanese have a word for it: shibumi - subdued elegance. Those bright corns strike me as clownish; a fresh-shed Jersey corn? "Noble" and "confidently classy" come to mind.

Ah well, de gustibus non est disputandum!

Dave

 

[Bobbleton]

No accounting for taste, eh?

I somehow feel that collectors wouldn't appreciate this understated elegance, but I certainly respect your point of view.

As for me--I still prefer the clownish variety of corns . . . being somewhat of a clown myself.

 

[uuglypher]

Dave, just for clarification, I think you meant route 70 and not route 72 correct?

Jeff

Crap! Yeah. 70 One of those "late middle-aged moments" I guess...

Dave

 

[dragoncjo]

Bob, personally I think a collector will take whatever he can find. He may get 100 for a pretty one, and 50 for the less brilliant one. But if it means avoiding employment he'll take whatever he can get.

 

[swwit]

funny you mention this:

I'm going out on a limb here, but wouldn't it make sense that our corns are colored in such a way because those traits for lovely striking brightly-colored snakes were removed (or more appropriatly collected) from the gene pool? I mean . . . its just natural. You don't pick the dark mottled withered flowers . . . you pick the biggest and brightest and most beautiful ones.

-Bob

This is not the case at all. They are definately less common now but they look the same as they did thirty years ago. As a matter of fact, when commercial collecting was all the rage, people still chose to collect corns from N.C. to Fla. because they were naturally brighter in color. Everyone wanted an Okeetee corn if they were to keep corns. The corns are here, but not commonly seen. There are much more secretive snakes to be seen here. For example, the only scarlet snake i've ever seen was back in the late 70's in Ocean Co. and not one since anywhere.

 

[dragoncjo]

Here is my take on the collecting thing when it comes to corns in new jersey, and all reptiles really. If they weren't that common 50 years ago, and they are pretty rare now I don't know how much this has to do with collecting. Thanks to the internet and modern day shipping methods it is much easier to collect and sell the animal. The internet allows anyone to simply go out collect any reptile and make a quick buck. Also if someone is interested in collecting corn snakes or any snake I doubt they would come to the pine barrens and new jersey, I could be wrong, but I think they would choose somewhere else, were there success rate would be higher. If corn populations dramatically decreased over the last 10 years I would say it is a function of collection. However, if they were always low I think it is just a combo of them being secretive and gradual habitat loss. I personally think it is hard for any reptile population to be at great numbers in the pine barrens due to the fact it is a hostile environment, and it seems like there aren't really too many abundant food sources for them. At least this is the rationale I use when I get goose egged everytime I go into the heart of the pine barrens.

 

[swwit]

This is not quite true in most cases. The reason is that because of all the captive breeding going on it's much easier to aquire an animal now. It's usually not cost effective to try and collect an uncommon species. For example, it's not worth the time and money to fly or drive out to Arizona to "try" to find a Mtn. kingsnake because it's easier to buy one for $100 or less. Even if you happen to live within the same state the cost of collecting one could be high.

Also if someone is interested in collecting corn snakes or any snake I doubt they would come to the pine barrens and new jersey, I could be wrong, but I think they would choose somewhere else, were there success rate would be higher. [/QUOTE]


Very true.

 

[Bobbleton]

I certainly agree that the pine barrens would be pretty low on the list of places to collect from NOW . . . but wasn't the main focus of this thread on how much more common snakes were in the past? I know there are more than enough reasons for population declines, but I can't help but believe folks like our legendary Ace had more than a little something to do with it.

 

[NJSnakeMan]

I go to a place in cumberland county were they are suppose to be. I've heard that they like railroad ties which this place has. However, I'm not a snake guy and just getting my feet wet so hopefully in the coming years I will come across one. In your expierience what kind of weather do they like? I've heard they're out early in the spring, any truth to this?

Corn snakes, are in fact attracted to hollowed out railroad ties for many reasons. For one, there isn't much to hide under in the Pines to get away from the summer heat...there aren't lots of rocks, so where else to go then to ties? RR Ties also provide a good place for Corns to lay their eggs, in a nice safe spot. Another good reason they're probably attracted to ties is the simple fact that mice dwell in them- a RAT snake's mainstay. As for me, i've not found a corn yet. I know of 2 places in NJ where they do exists, 1 in cumberland co. and 1 in burlington co. My friend found a corn shed last year next to a tie, so they're still around.

Once i get my liscense, i'll have a little more freedom to herp and explore. As of now- i'm stuck with local herping.

 

[NJSnakeMan]

I personally have no experience with finding corns, so I don't know when they are active. But according to Carl Kauffeld's "snakes and snake hunting" they're active right after the moon goes down, and probably throughout the night. He's only ever found 2- both at Crossley, road cruising.

 

[swwit]

I certainly agree that the pine barrens would be pretty low on the list of places to collect from NOW . . . but wasn't the main focus of this thread on how much more common snakes were in the past? I know there are more than enough reasons for population declines, but I can't help but believe folks like our legendary Ace had more than a little something to do with it.

The main focus was as you say but it was mentioned that commercial collecting may have impacted the animals. This may be true with certain animals like the bog turtles that live in small pockets of land with specialized requirements. Corn snakes have never been very common. The corn snakes like the RR ties but so do most other snakes. Maybe the reason we don't see as many corns is because is some places that the ties were located have been hit by fires and many of them are now ashes. At this point the snakes have to find other places to hide. I highly doubt that the lack of corn snake sightings is due to commercial collecting.