Controlled burn?

[Boyd]

Driving home on the Atlantic City Expressway today there was a lot of smoke coming from the Winslow WMA (just East of exit 33) which went on for several miles:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.659231,-74.887147&spn=0.01718,0.03768&t=h&z=15

It was quite a cloud - easily visible uponr entering the Expressway from Rt 42, over 10 miles away. It struck me that it was very windy day to be burning, so I wonder if it was getting out of control?

Then near my home I saw they were also doing controlled burning at the Estell Manor Game preserve. Isn't it risky to do that on these windy days?

 

[Teegate]

Driving home on the Atlantic City Expressway today there was a lot of smoke coming from the Winslow WMA (just East of exit 33) which went on for several miles:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.659231,-74.887147&spn=0.01718,0.03768&t=h&z=15

It was quite a cloud - easily visible uponr entering the Expressway from Rt 42, over 10 miles away. It struck me that it was very windy day to be burning, so I wonder if it was getting out of control?

Then near my home I saw they were also doing controlled burning at the Estell Manor Game preserve. Isn't it risky to do that on these windy days?

I guess it is always risky. Maybe they had a good backburn going or an open area in front of it.

Guy

 

[BobNJ1979]

i was told (by the head forest fire guy in an area of wharton), that they are called "prescribed burns".. there is a formula sheet, where certain variables must be met, on a given day, to do a burn..

 

[Boyd]

i was told (by the head forest fire guy in an area of wharton), that they are called "prescribed burns"

Does that mean they aren't "controlled"?

 

[GermanG]

A few years ago they changed the official term from controlled to prescribed. They are pretty picky about it too. I think it's because it sounds better when a prescribed burn gets out of control than when a controlled burn does.

The strength of the wind isn't as important as whether or not the direction is consistant. A fire burning against a steady stronger wind burns even slower through the tract.

The usual deadline is March 15, so after a bad burning winter like this one we'll see alot of activity in the next few days if the weather cooperartes.

 

[piker56]

Driving home on the Atlantic City Expressway today there was a lot of smoke coming from the Winslow WMA (just East of exit 33) which went on for several miles:QUOTE]


I hike there a lot. I know they have cut a lot of new fire breaks the last few months through that area. I'm off this Friday, I'll have to check it out.

 

[bobpbx]

There was an article in the local paper about the new "Hay Road" project out by Warren Grove. 200 foot wide swath of cutting, 4 miles long, to protect the dear seniors from big bad fire.

If the fire service had their damn way, they would burn the pines to the ground and never allow another thing to grow.

 

[firetech792]

Wow...that is so not true. You should really look into the reasons & benefits for prescribed burning projects.

 

[BobNJ1979]

If the fire service had their damn way, they would burn the pines to the ground and never allow another thing to grow.

why would they want that ? that almost makes no sense whatsoever.

now, i have heard in the past, that the ppa is against controlled burns, saying it disallows the natural progression of the pines.. of course i have an opinion, like anyone else, but i'm letting ben do most of the opinions lately - he seems to do well w/ it..

 

[bobpbx]

Wow...that is so not true. You should really look into the reasons & benefits for prescribed burning projects.

Firetech, clearing around communities is good, say a circular ring or something like that. But in my experience, the fire service does not care at all about keeping the pine barrens wild, the way the Pineland Preservation Act meant for them to be. Their motto is, if there is smoke, get down there and stomp it out and bulldoze all around it and dig trenches all the way to hell and back. Gouge up the land is all they do. I think they do it to justify their jobs.

I have seen them twice, in Double Trouble State Park, and in Greenwood Forest, during non-threatening fires, when the leaves are out and not really burning as much as smoldering, bulldoze prime pine barren land, right down into the swamp. They did not have to do that. All they had to do was position themselves next to an existing road, and stop it.

Just...stop it. That's all they had to do.

 

[firetech792]

I do see your point. But again, there is reasons why they chose to plow around that fire that day. There are many factors that come into play. The weather, duff conditions & depth, type of fuel and so on. There is just too much on the subject to explain here in this forum.
Pete

 

[bobpbx]

I do see your point. But again, there is reasons why they chose to plow around that fire that day. There are many factors that come into play. The weather, duff conditions & depth, type of fuel and so on. There is just too much on the subject to explain here in this forum.
Pete

And I'm willing to listen to you Pete. I don't mean to be rude or upsetting. I'm sure you know your job and put your heart in it. I don't know much of the technical stuff about fire control and prescriptive burning. It's just that I have seen some damage done that didn't need to be, and I get carried away with my comments on this subject.

According to the article, they want to do the same type of massive firebreaks in Greenwood Forest, Double Trouble, and the Berkely Triangle. Between them and the Fish and Game commssion clearing hundreds of acre for deer, we are losing unbroken forest real fast.

 

[woodjin]

If the fire service had their damn way, they would burn the pines to the ground and never allow another thing to grow.

Bob, I know that you know the benefits and importance of fire in the barrens. I recall that you have questioned wheather the prescribed burns are hot enough to have an effect on the proliferation (spelling) of pine.

So I would assume that your real concern is with the fire clears rather than the prescribed burn itself is that correct?

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

now, i have heard in the past, that the ppa is against controlled burns, saying it disallows the natural progression of the pines.. :

Just the oppisite is true. Fire helps to maintain the ecology we are familar with (pine dominant).

Jeff

 

[BobNJ1979]

i disagree w/ you jeff. i've heard (from PPA sources) that they want WILD fires.. not controlled fires.. saying that controlled burns do not allow the pines to experience the heat they need to flourish ..

and P.S. my friends dad is on the forest fire service, in the wharton area.. he had been a volunteer fireman (homes) before, and he said nothing is as scary as a forest fire.. let's remember (before we pass judgement) that these men and women do an amazing job of PROTECTING ppl, and property.. we had a little accident in our yard about 15 yrs ago, and I was quite glad to see those red trucks drive into my backyard.. sure they rode over stuff and bounced off some trees, but they did what they had to do.. and saved the day.

 

[woodjin]

i disagree w/ you jeff. i've heard (from PPA sources) that they want WILD fires.. not controlled fires.. saying that controlled burns do not allow the pines to experience the heat they need to flourish ..

Okay, I'll buy that. That is a common theory and good argument. But it is my understanding that a controlled burn would not inhibit pine growth (or favor oak growth) which is what I thought you were implying in your post.

Jeff

 

[BobNJ1979]

c'mon jeff. WHEN would i try to get on your bad side.. seriously now.. i plan on extracting more fishing spots out of you than dare to imagine.. how am i doing so far ? ( my new favorite emoticon)..

 

[LongIslandPiney]

There was an article in the local paper about the new "Hay Road" project out by Warren Grove. 200 foot wide swath of cutting, 4 miles long, to protect the dear seniors from big bad fire.

If the fire service had their damn way, they would burn the pines to the ground and never allow another thing to grow.

I'm skeptical about firebreaks. In the 1995 Sunrise fires, the fire easily crossed Sunrise Highway which is at least 200 feet wide, the fire trucks were trapped for awhile.
I do not like the Hay road plan at all. It is unneccesary cutting which may not even bring much benefit. Prescribed burns are much more effective. You also have to remember firebreaks can become overgrown with flammable grasses, unless they plan to mow it.
And lets not forget developers could use these firebreaks for new developments. I guess it's too late to stop the Hay road plan, darn.

 

[bobpbx]

Bob, I know that you know the benefits and importance of fire in the barrens. I recall that you have questioned wheather the prescribed burns are hot enough to have an effect on the proliferation (spelling) of pine.

So I would assume that your real concern is with the fire clears rather than the prescribed burn itself is that correct?

Jeff

Yes, my main concern is the rampant bulldozing and trenching, making things definitely "unwilderness" like. But, I am not a fan of prescribed burns either, UNLESS, they are to create a fire ring immediately around developments. Controlled burns will not maintain the pygmy forest in its current state. They are not hot enough, according to what I have read. I see them doing controlled burns off 539 too, in Greenwood Forest by Webb's Mill. Why? They must have the idea that if they stop a cigarette thrown from a car from igniting the forest, it won't travel 6 miles to the parkway? To me, the opposite should happen, they should allow the pines to exist naturally, but use the natural firebreaks such as the high tension line area "next" to the parkway to stop it. So what if motorists on 539 are inconvenienced if a fire starts at pasadena road, and the service makes their stand at 539 to stop it? That makes more sense than watching all these trucks and bulldozers charge into the forest, putting themselves at great risk mind you. Do you remember some of the photos from the Warren Grove burn? They had trucks in there that were nearly engulfed in flames. There was no way in hell they could have actually stopped that fire by running down a sand road.

 

[firetech792]

We all have valid points here. But a lot of times people make negative claims against prescribed burning only because they don't know the real reasons or they are mis-informed.
There are some short videos the state put together. Here is the link if you would like some more info on this subject and others:
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/parksandforests/fire/fire-dvd.htm

regards
Pete