I'm not sure if the Hay Road cut is a road providing access to remote areas for fire fighters or not. I know one of the fire cuts in Winslow is as wide as a road. Within a few weeks of it's completion, there was already fresh trash (mostly construction waste) dumped along the road. It gave the dumpers a clear path off the paved road to dumpr their junk.
Controlled burn?
- Thread starter Boyd
- Start date
I'll second the notion that the ecological role of fire in the pines does not apply to prescribed burns. A wildfire often kills the dominant trees in the stand, setting forest succession back a stage or two. Without it, shade tolerant oaks would eventually replace the pines in the canopy. The rare and interesting herbaceous plants also thrive in the sunlit conditions after a fire, as well as certain species of wildlife. Prescribed burns do not have this effect and are done purely to reduce fuel and prevent destructive fires. This may not be the most natural way to manage the pine barrens but the fragmentation of the forest by developmemt make it necessary in many areas.
As for firebreaks, it's true that few are wide enough to totally stop a wildfire in its tracks, but one of their most important functions is being a safe line to start backfires from, in order to fight the oncoming fire before it gets to the development you are trying to protect.
Alot of all this is unatural or destructive in its on right, but this in New Jersey. We just have too much going on in too small a space, and every faction has its priorities. Imperfect compromises are the result.
As for firebreaks, it's true that few are wide enough to totally stop a wildfire in its tracks, but one of their most important functions is being a safe line to start backfires from, in order to fight the oncoming fire before it gets to the development you are trying to protect.
Alot of all this is unatural or destructive in its on right, but this in New Jersey. We just have too much going on in too small a space, and every faction has its priorities. Imperfect compromises are the result.
Thanks for posting this link. The "history of fire" was particularly interesting with lots of historical photos within the film. The summery at the end did ignore the postive ecological benefits of wild fires. I wonder if the forest fire service public relations dept. tries to keep this fact low key (so as not to encourage arson).
Jeff
Jeff
have the big tall pine trees along 539 south grown back yet ? the ones that were burned straight to the top is last yrs warren groove fire .. i figure, the forest fire service has been taking care of business and doing a good job for all these yrs, let them keep doing their work.. OR.. you might not have any forests left to explore... :jeffd:
I have a one word comment on those articles:
Meddling: to interfere without right or propriety. :eng101:
Well, there is little argument that wild fires are advantagous to the forest. The pine barrens as we know it are dependant on it. What would be cool is if the forest fire service could prepare ahead of time for a massive forest fire (particularly in the plains where the ecology is most fire dependant) and just be prepared to stop it before it reaches private property. Of course, the logistics and risk involved make that idea impossible.
When that fire broke out last year I remember thinking that while I was very concerned for the lives of the fire fighters and people living nearby, the plains needed that burn pretty bad.
If you look at the plains along 72 near coyle feild you can see that the pygmy pines are diminishing. Without fire, this unique area will vanish.
There is no doubt that is true. Years ago I could ride down 72 and see much more because the trees were so short. Jeff has lived in this area for a much shorter time than me and can easily notice it. What will it be like in 30 more years?
Guy
I have only been in the area for 15 years, and I see a big difference in the pygmy pines too. Where it seems most noticeable to me is the area around Spring Hill. Those trees have gotten much taller - I don't think there have been any major fires in that area.
Walter F. Bien, Ph.D, is a great source of information about the plains, and he's a really nice guy. He works a lot out behind the bombing range and gave a tour of the range's endangered species a few years back. I was shocked to see one area where the pines are only up to my knee. Very, very cool.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/186/story/96191.html
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/186/story/96191.html
That was before I knew you Bob (I think), but I might have been on that same tour. I traveled between sites on the tour with Russ. We found a rattler that day, which was my first ever in the pines (I'd seen them in Sussex County before). I was also impressed at how much the Air Guard was sponsering in the way of environmental projects.
German you were there I think if it was the same rattler. It was curled up at the edge of a bog and the temperature was about 60 degrees I believe. Ted Gordon was with us too. I was riding with Walt and Andy Windisch and we stopped at a rise where the knee high pines were. We went a slightly different way to the Oswego than the rest of the crowd.
There is no doubt that the state forest fire service performs an invaluable service. The brave men and women that fight fire and set prescribed fires deserve enormous of credit and gratitude from the public, for saving human lives and property.
We shouldn't confuse this, though, with the ecological function of wildfire in the Pine Barrens. According to ecologists, wildfires, over the last 10,000 years or so, helped create the Pine Barrens. They helped make it what it is. Wildfires do not "destroy" the forest, nor are they "destructive" as the press is often inclined to erroneously report." They are part of the natural system.
We should give all due credit to the Forest Fire Service for protecting human lives and property, but let's not confuse the unnatural ecological effects of prescribed fire and fire suppression with the natural ecological effects of wildfire.
i took a class (while in cook colege entitled "pinelands agriculture".. taught by Dr. Peter Odemuns (spelling).. he said from a health stand point, the pine barrens were relatively unhealthy, as many of the trees are 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation growths from the orig seed.. he said that a good way to revive it was to "selectively log" it. which i think they've been doing on the road b/t 72 and rt 9 (waretown road?).. on the left as yu head twd rt 9 .. they cleared some trees and fluffed up the soil. i'm sure he could explain it better..
It's amazing how nature has run its course over millions of years without our help. Thank God we're here now in 2008 to finally make the forest "healthy"....
now people are getting personal and arrogant.. b/c everyone knows best.. i merely listed the opinion of a well respected professional, in the field.. keep this conversation rolling, but i'm out of it..
whenever it comes to something someone doesn't agree with, they become a damn expert
whenever it comes to something someone doesn't agree with, they become a damn expert
now people are getting personal and arrogant.. b/c everyone knows best.. i merely listed the opinion of a well respected professional, in the field.. keep this conversation rolling, but i'm out of it..
whenever it comes to something someone doesn't agree with, they become a damn expert
Bob, I think you make a perfectly good point in citing an expert. We all ought to do more of that, rather than just blurt out our first reaction, which is something I'm certainly guilty of at times. At the same time, as we all know, experts in the same or related fields are likely to disagree with each other, and Boyd was expressing an opinion (or at least implying one) that is shared by many ecologists. No need to take it personally. Maybe the rest of us should cite specific experts in this discussion.
Yes, clearly I was just expressing my opinion (in an admittedly sarcastic way). I certainly didn't intend it as something "personal". On reflection, you said your course was entitled "pinelands agriculture". Now that would be something very different from "pinelands ecology" I think. In the context of agriculture - making the most "productive" use of available acreage and creating crops with sustainable yields, then those comments probably make sense.
I'm certainly not an expert. Like many other, I come here to learn and share opinions. But from my limited knowledge, the scenario you describe of multiple growths from the same original tree, that sounds like one explanation I've read for the existence of the pygmy forests.
I'm certainly not an expert. Like many other, I come here to learn and share opinions. But from my limited knowledge, the scenario you describe of multiple growths from the same original tree, that sounds like one explanation I've read for the existence of the pygmy forests.