Customers report water in gasoline purchased from N.J. Wawa

[Teegate]

Oregon is the only other state.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

I almost forgot, there was a proposal to do away with this stupid law a few years ago and it got nowhere: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-16-nj-gas_x.htm

This seems ridiculous to me. Why don't we hear about terrible accidents everyday in the other 48 states if it's so dangerous to pump your own gas?

Bill Dressler, executive director of the New Jersey Gasoline Retailers Association and Allied Trades, says there are safety concerns. While attendants are trained, many motorists would be novices. "It could be put in the wrong container," says Dressler, whose group represents about 2,200 of the state's 3,800 gas stations. There could be "somebody getting out and smoking and they didn't turn the engine off."

Seems more likely that New Jerseyans are just too lazy to get out of their cars...

Corzine retreated after about 1,400 e-mails and calls poured in from a mostly outraged public. Concern about other state issues paled in comparison. A proposal to raise the sales tax by one cent, for example, received about 200 responses from the public, says Brendan Gilfillan, a spokesman for the governor.

 

[46er]

Maybe I am missing something but I have to disagree. It states.

12:196-1.3 Attendant duties​

(a) Service stations accessible to the public shall have an attendant on duty whenever the station is open for business.​

(b) Only an attendant shall dispense fuel into fuel tanks or into containers.​

NJ has a strong gasoline retailers association and they have kept it illegal for anyone other than attendants from dispensing fuel and I doubt they will change their position anytime soon.​

If there is a different law for diesel than I may be wrong. But the link posted only mentions diesel once and it does not say anything about it there.

Guy​

Under the definition they use in the law, diesel is not a fuel.

 

[Teegate]

I am not an expert on this subject; however, when I worked at a gas station back in the 70s I had quite a few conversations with the owner about this. He claimed that the nationwide trend at the time was to go all gas and eliminate mechanical work. The NJ Gasoline Retail Association was resisting this change to keep their members in business who did mechanical work. As we can see "all gas" has really moved ahead but apparently the NJGRA efforts to resist self serve is working.

Guy

 

[RednekF350]

I have had a diesel pickup truck for almost 10 years and I have never had an attendant pump my fuel once.
They don't even look at you when you pull up to the diesel pumps. In most older places, diesel is usually detached from the regular service islands.

 

[dogg57]

Quoting Wikipedia:

All stations in New Jersey and Oregon, however, are mini service; attendants are required to pump gas because customers are barred by statutes in both states from pumping their own gas. Both states prohibited self service in the 1940s due to fears that foolish customers would handle gasoline improperly. Oregon's Department of Environmental Quality has also ordered a ban on self-service gasoline due to inexperienced pumpers being a significant source of groundwater and air pollution. Oregon's state fire marshal has also ordered a ban on self-service gasoline. Today, these states enforce the law because of the rapid increase of drive-offs, where people fill up their car and drive away without paying for gas. In 1982, Oregon voters rejected a ballot measure sponsored by the service station owners, which would have legalized self-service gas.​

Interestingly, in both states, it's legal to pump your own diesel -- just not gasoline.

I have to think those fears are unfounded, though. Most of the country seems to have no problem dispensing gas safely without polluting the air or ground, and there are other ways to deal with drive-offs. I think the persistence of these laws probably has more to do with baseless hysteria from people who think it's hard to work a gas pump, and keeping people employed, than any legitimate concerns over the safety of self-service.

 

[46er]

Interestingly, in both states, it's legal to pump your own diesel -- just not gasoline.

That's because diesel has a very high flash point(+143f), gasoline very low(-45f). It's been well documented that folks pumping their own gasoline have caused explosions and subsequent fires, due to static charge build up and not grounding before touching the pump, as shown in the video at the link. Similar cause for the vast majority of boat fires. Dangerous stuff gasoline, the fumes even more so. Personally, I have no issues with someone pumping gasoline for me, just wish they would clean the windshield and check the oil too

http://youtu.be/tuZxFL9cGkI

 

[Boyd]

It's been well documented that folks pumping their own gasoline have caused explosions and subsequent fires

Has it been well documented that there are more of these fires and explosions (per capita) in states where people pump their own gas as opposed to NJ? And is it also well documented that NJ pump attendants (who often barely speak English) are properly trained in safety procedures?

 

[46er]

Has it been well documented that there are more of these fires and explosions (per capita) in states where people pump their own gas as opposed to NJ? And is it also well documented that NJ pump attendants (who often barely speak English) are properly trained in safety procedures?

Yes it has, just two studies at the links. I'm sure you can find more.

http://www.hcdoes.org/airquality/GDF/static3.htm

http://www.pei.org/Portals/0/resources/documents/Refueling Fire Incidents.pdf

and yes to your second question as well. Documentation for each attendant is diplayed at each gasoline station. I think a persons intelligence and common sense is more important in this issue than the language they speak. But that's me, others may be more biased.

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/lsse/laws/Retail_Gasoline_Act_and_Regs.html#343a7

 

[dogg57]

"intelligence and common sense is more important in this issue than the language they speak" I feel all 3 are important.If There is a emergency. Communication is very important.To think these laws are enforced is a joke. By saying this make me biased? No its just common sense.Thats why I choose to go to gas stations I know.We could solve this whole issue if we just pumped our own. Are people in NJ that bad they cant pump there own and the rest of the country is so much safer. Just my own thoughts

 

[Boyd]

Yes it has, just two studies at the links.

I didn't read everything there too carefully, but the main thing which stood out at the first link was the statement

Remember, static electricity-related fires at retail gasoline outlets are extremely unusual, according to API and PEI

But "whatever". For reasons I don't understand, this isn't going to change anytime soon. So you will not have to leave the comfort of your vehicle while the well-trained attendant safely dispenses your fuel, and we can all rest a lot better knowing that the extra cost of full service makes our state so much safer than the other 48.

 

[skip3]

I think u should enjoy this while you can. Your fuel prices always seem lower than ours when I am there.
My wife had never seen such a thing and the first time we were there she tipped the guy ten bucks every time.
The little station in Nesco, he still remembers her every year.

 

[Boyd]

I think the price difference is mostly due to taxes - probably the only kind of tax where NJ is lower than most states http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp