Dams on Buckshutem Creek

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
2,469
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Were you using your phone with my app to navigate through that swamp? Or just your trusty Magellan? :D

My app cannot import or export tracks, only waypoints. This is explained in the help files. I had originally planned to add that feature, and someday I might. But from what I can gather, nobody but you even uses the waypoint feature. So I'm not going to spend time adding further GPX features at this point, I have plenty of other code to write and maps to make.
I can lay my tracks down over aerials on other programs so I can a tleast see them but your the only one I know of that has LIDAR. I cannot attach gpx or kml files on the forum or I would post the track and folks could open it up in Google Earth but thats still not helping much because the feature Gabe pointed out is only visible on Lidar.I was just attempting to demonstrate that I did cross and recross the feature and never saw it. I tried using your phone app while I was out there but had 0 service.0 Service inside the Millville city limits is a bunch of crap. This of course is not a strike against your awesome app but either aginst the service provider or maybe it's my crappy Iphone 6 because I have seen people get service with newer phones when I had none.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,205
4,302
Pines; Bamber area
One puzzling aspect of that spot. You can see there is a slope that goes beyond the edge of the waterway, but you were there and did not see one.

1644778988691.png
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
2,469
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
I followed a barely discernible ditch that may just have been a game trail to the waters edge.At that point it hit the dead water channel and disappeared.there was nothing visible across the water but grassy cedar humps and mud/That would be about the southern end of the western red line.So perhaps gabes feature is that ditch but once it hits the swamp it's gone? Filled with soupy mud.perhaps the LIDAR sees through that mud and is picking up a now buried ditch?
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
2,469
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
I followed a barely discernible ditch that may just have been a game trail to the waters edge.At that point it hit the dead water channel and disappeared.there was nothing visible across the water but grassy cedar humps and mud/That would be about the southern end of the western red line.So perhaps gabes feature is that ditch but once it hits the swamp it's gone? Filled with soupy mud.perhaps the LIDAR sees through that mud and is picking up a now buried ditch?
I forgot to mention just before i made the first video a Barred Owl out in the swamp across the crik hollered Who Cooks For You?! I hollered back Sweetpea! (My pet nane for Momma) he must have been satisfied for he left it at that
 
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manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
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millville nj
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Could it be the LIDAR is seeing through the muck and moss to the sand pan under the mud? Could it be seeing either and old road or sand berm piled on an old dam that is now buried under four or five ft of mud?It's soupy mud,perhaps it doesn't register as solid ground which believe me it isn't,
 

Boyd

Administrator
Staff member
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Jul 31, 2004
9,543
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Just remember that I used 3x vertical exaggeration in these LIDAR based maps and tweaked the lighting to bring out small details. So the "bumps" that you see could actually be pretty insignificant on the ground. Enable elevation display and slowly drag the map around, it uses the LIDAR DEM as a source when viewing these maps, and that will give you some idea of how big any features might actually be.
 
When we were hiking at Mordecai, Scott (RednekF350) mentioned that the Buckshutem phenomena could have been a dam to back up the water for logging purposes. I think that could be a good possibility but it begs the question if those features could be found at other sites. Wish I could have been there with you today but the baby didn't allow me to sleep last night. Great report!
 

Boyd

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Staff member
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Jul 31, 2004
9,543
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Also, FWIW, from the 2019 South Jersey LIDAR project metadata:

"Ground Conditions: Lidar was collected in early 2019, while no snow was on the ground and rivers were at or below normal levels."
 
Apr 6, 2004
3,613
556
Galloway
I hit the northern end of Buckshutem Dam today.Some gorgeous woods on the way there,primeval laurel thickets but the last fifty yards turned into a real mess,got tore up.Crawled in along the creek which had absolutely no flow.I found nothing resembling a berm,on heading out i went mor to the east and the swamp immediately opened up and found nothing there either.I was side stepping east in the swamp trying to find a way to punch north through a formidable briar wall when I eventually stumbled onto a sapling with a pair of blue and white ribbons tied to it.It still looked like a briar wall but realizing i was getting no where near the trail out by staying in the swamp I starting pushing through head high briars.I immediately felt the ground start to rise under me and thirty ft later fell into a clearing head first.Got up brushed myself off and looked left and right.It was surrounded by big laurel.I thought I saw a gap to the left and upon getting closer saw a very tight trail disappear into the jungle.I took me a hundred yards to the old rd not turned foor trail which led me another quarter mile through a laurel jungle to the big dirt rd.God bless hunters.I don't know how many times I"ve been in a jam and stumbled onto one of their trails that got me out. I am posting two youtube vids I took and a couple jpegs of my route. I tried to post my track on Boyds LIDAR but it will take my waypoints but not my track.You should be able to tell though by switching back and forth between lidar and aerials that I crossed and recrossed the feature and i saw nothing.I think perhaps there was a flood in the past that dumped sand along a beaver dam that is still there.The flood may have wiped out the beavers or with a new dam they just repaired the spillway but eventually they left.Then the swamp covered said dam with the nasty vicious buckshutem mud that is there today.Could the lidar be seeing through the soup and seeing a more solid feature now covered over?
Al, I suspect you are correct, but are you absolutely sure you got to the exact location? You were on target last Sunday, so I assume you are correct.

I am in the process of documenting similar features throughout South Jersey. There are many. My suspicion is that these were beaver dams that were modified for logging very early on, as Spung-Man suggested. Very cool stuff. I will share the locations soon when I am done.
 
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Apr 6, 2004
3,613
556
Galloway
Here are 30 locations to start out with.

Absecon creek:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.439547/-74.585158/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
Mattix Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.496985/-74.477966/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.506505/-74.475670/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Moss Mill Stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.494327/-74.543025/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Clark’s Mill Stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.513301/-74.555707/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Indian Cabin:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.574565/-74.674438/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Lucas Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.608732/-74.645867/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.613761/-74.639183/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.614802/-74.638314/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
Norton’s Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.604250/-74.695080/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Great Swamp Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.679806/-74.726000/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
South River:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.476308/-74.864887/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.476979/-74.856572/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Mare Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.473905/-74.769921/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Deep Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.517023/-74.909304/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
James Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.396179/-74.788633/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.397199/-74.786610/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Stephen Creek:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.402181/-74.772572/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.401879/-74.768387/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Warners Mill stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.329143/-74.803342/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.340578/-74.800864/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.341789/-74.795902/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Thundergust Brook:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.501365/-75.143949/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.499217/-75.156979/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Chatfield Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.431433/-75.131379/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Buckshutem Creek: https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.345004/-75.060746/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.348248/-75.075026/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.348339/-75.085025/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Dividing Creek Tributary:
https://boydsmaps.com/#15.00/39.302580/-75.056925/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Lebanon Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#19.00/39.439802/-75.127282/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
 
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Boyd

Administrator
Staff member
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
9,543
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek

I have wondered about the area North of there for awhile, which almost looks like some kind of heiroglyphics

https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.307677/-75.059393/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00

I assume this is some kind of extractive mining, but it's weird the way it branches out with so many sites. What are they looking for in a pattern like that? Seems like they must have been testing to find some specific mineral (or gravel type?) or they would have just dug one big pit. If you flip through the years, the activity seems to have begun in 2013

https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.307677/-75.059393/njgin2013/0.00/0.00

And expanded considerably since then (this is the same year as the LIDAR - 2019)

https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.307677/-75.059393/njgin2019/0.00/0.00
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,205
4,302
Pines; Bamber area
Here are 30 locations to start out with.

Absecon creek:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.439547/-74.585158/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
Mattix Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.496985/-74.477966/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.506505/-74.475670/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Moss Mill Stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.494327/-74.543025/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Clark’s Mill Stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.513301/-74.555707/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Indian Cabin:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.574565/-74.674438/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Lucas Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.608732/-74.645867/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.613761/-74.639183/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.614802/-74.638314/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
Norton’s Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.604250/-74.695080/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Great Swamp Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.679806/-74.726000/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
South River:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.476308/-74.864887/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.476979/-74.856572/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Mare Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.473905/-74.769921/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Deep Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.517023/-74.909304/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
James Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.396179/-74.788633/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.397199/-74.786610/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Stephen Creek:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.402181/-74.772572/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.401879/-74.768387/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Warners Mill stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.329143/-74.803342/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.340578/-74.800864/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.341789/-74.795902/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Thundergust Brook:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.501365/-75.143949/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.499217/-75.156979/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Chatfield Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.431433/-75.131379/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Buckshutem Creek: https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.345004/-75.060746/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.348248/-75.075026/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.348339/-75.085025/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Dividing Creek Tributary:
https://boydsmaps.com/#15.00/39.302580/-75.056925/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Lebanon Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#19.00/39.439802/-75.127282/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
I wonder if an early corduroy road would have, in some way not understood, have shaped the land to allow Lidar to pick it up.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
2,469
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Al, I suspect you are correct, but are you absolutely sure you got to the exact location? You were on target last Sunday, so I assume you are correct.

I am in the process of documenting similar features throughout South Jersey. There are many. My suspicion is that these were beaver dams that were modified for logging very early on, as Spung-Man suggested. Very cool stuff. I will share the locations soon when I am done.
I would assume I was right on the money since at Mordecai I exactly hit the end of the 1808 road using coords I got off of Boyd's LIDAR and I used the same map to get the coords for the Buckshutem Dam.I did not try the lower damn by the power line but it may yie4ld something since the swamp is probably less soupy down there.A re you thinking the LIDar may be looking through the soup to solid features below?
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
2,469
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Here are 30 locations to start out with.

Absecon creek:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.439547/-74.585158/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
Mattix Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.496985/-74.477966/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.506505/-74.475670/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Moss Mill Stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.494327/-74.543025/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Clark’s Mill Stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.513301/-74.555707/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Indian Cabin:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.574565/-74.674438/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Lucas Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.608732/-74.645867/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.613761/-74.639183/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.614802/-74.638314/lidar2022hd/0.00/0.00
Norton’s Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.604250/-74.695080/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Great Swamp Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.679806/-74.726000/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
South River:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.476308/-74.864887/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.476979/-74.856572/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Mare Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#16.00/39.473905/-74.769921/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Deep Run:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.517023/-74.909304/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
James Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.396179/-74.788633/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.397199/-74.786610/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Stephen Creek:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.402181/-74.772572/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.401879/-74.768387/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Warners Mill stream:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.329143/-74.803342/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.340578/-74.800864/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.341789/-74.795902/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Thundergust Brook:
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.501365/-75.143949/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.499217/-75.156979/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Chatfield Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#18.00/39.431433/-75.131379/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Buckshutem Creek: https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.345004/-75.060746/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.348248/-75.075026/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
https://boydsmaps.com/#17.00/39.348339/-75.085025/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Dividing Creek Tributary:
https://boydsmaps.com/#15.00/39.302580/-75.056925/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Lebanon Branch:
https://boydsmaps.com/#19.00/39.439802/-75.127282/lidar2021bw/0.00/0.00
Gabe the Dividing Creek tributary is an earthen dam with an old road across it.You could still drive it except for trees across it and access to the area is gated by state gates or closed off by sand plant. Al;so did you notice the kiln just north of your feature on Indian Cabin Branch? I think these may be relict beaver dams below mud but beings dams are made from wood and mud how would they leave an imprint unless and washed up on them and left a ridge?
 
Apr 6, 2004
3,613
556
Galloway
Gabe the Dividing Creek tributary is an earthen dam with an old road across it.You could still drive it except for trees across it and access to the area is gated by state gates or closed off by sand plant. Al;so did you notice the kiln just north of your feature on Indian Cabin Branch? I think these may be relict beaver dams below mud but beings dams are made from wood and mud how would they leave an imprint unless and washed up on them and left a ridge?
Ok, I wasn't sure about the feature on the Dividing Creek tributary.

I did not notice the kiln!

It might be the mud that is showing up. What do you think, Boyd?
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,555
2,469
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Ok, I wasn't sure about the feature on the Dividing Creek tributary.

I did not notice the kiln!

It might be the mud that is showing up. What do you think, Boyd?
Ok, I wasn't sure about the feature on the Dividing Creek tributary.

I did not notice the kiln!

It might be the mud that is showing up. What do you think, Boyd?
I’m actually thinking the mud might be invisible?and solid features beneath it might be showing but then again Lidar does not go thru water or the bottoms of lakes would show which they dont???
 
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