I have your map open on Google Earth. I see you've already capitulated on West Mill Road. The battle over opening that road is ongoing. My stance is; force Hammonton somehow to open that gate. We want to drive on that road.
DEP Announces Virtual Public Meeting to Launch Wharton State Forest Visitor and Vehicle Use Survey
- Thread starter RednekF350
- Start date
West Wading River Natural Area incl Frank's ford sectiom
name: West Wading River Natural Area incl Frank's ford sectiomdescription: empty
What are you saying here? Are you trying to keep people from driving that sand road next to the wading, and the other one in the area? That road next to the Wading is older than dirt, and should be kept open.
What about this sw of Atsion Lake? Who are you blaming here, the DEP? That's not a cool way to make a statement. What are you saying to them; close the area to vehicles?
description: empty
Illegal Roads due to forestry project mismanagement
name: Illegal Roads due to forestry project mismanagementdescription: empty
Where you call for barricading areas where people have gone to the sandy areas along the Mullica on the SE side -- that could be alleviated differently with signs indicating day use only, no over nighters and no parking closer than 100 feet from the river, or some such.
But look, I understand where you and Emile and Russ and Carlton are coming from, and why you believe what you do is right and defensible. As strict environmentalists you have a different outlook on use of the forest than I do, and many on this board do. We will never see eye to eye, and I will not get behind closing areas to vehicles, even though I may agree in come cases, because once you start, you can't reverse, and acre by acre, and road by road, the forest will not look the same to us, and we will lose a seriously important cultural heritage we currently enjoy. Get in your truck and drive, stay on the roads, don't go in wet lands, and don't use the forest as proving grounds for your monster truck. It's not hard to abide by that, I can live with it, and I don't want to give it up. Not at all.
But look, I understand where you and Emile and Russ and Carlton are coming from, and why you believe what you do is right and defensible. As strict environmentalists you have a different outlook on use of the forest than I do, and many on this board do. We will never see eye to eye, and I will not get behind closing areas to vehicles, even though I may agree in come cases, because once you start, you can't reverse, and acre by acre, and road by road, the forest will not look the same to us, and we will lose a seriously important cultural heritage we currently enjoy. Get in your truck and drive, stay on the roads, don't go in wet lands, and don't use the forest as proving grounds for your monster truck. It's not hard to abide by that, I can live with it, and I don't want to give it up. Not at all.
Just to refresh, this is the wording that was used in the first press release, last August:
This very much read to me as if the permit system is a foregone conclusion ("the State Park Service will develop a permit system" - emphasis mine) and that the purpose of the survey is not to discuss whether such a system will be implemented, but rather which roads will be in-scope for such permitting. Presumably anything not in scope for permitting would cease to be legal to drive on.
I appreciate your reply. I will have a look at the video you linked in order to better understand your specific positions.
Rulemaking Stakeholder Meetings
That area specifically was a forestry project in the 90s that created a path into a spung. The spung was subsequently torn up by ORVs and is still getting worse because parks staff in Trenton refused an offer to install vehicle barriers.
The text comments on the public file are pretty thin, T&E info was submitted directly to NJDEP.
That road is visible in 1965. so was not created by forestry project in the 90s.
I don't know if it was officially canceled but the Batona Camp is jammed with 4 wheeling happy campers with dogs and children. As I was driving home there were many more coming down Carranza Road. It looks like fun; I'd like to join them.
I was thinking that this might be a CYA move on the part of the person who "organized" this. Announce it on Facebook where it gets lots of exposure and people start making plans to attend, then "cancel" it (wink-wink) so he can say that whatever happens isn't his fault.
I was out at Oswago lake doing a trash clean up with my MC club today. A boat load of 4X4 vehicles went down Oswago road heading up Sooy Rd. Yes this event should of had to get a permit like our club is required to get in order to put on our enduro. Probably most of the beer cans I picked up were from them.
I went on a nice trail ride with about 20 drivers from Atsion to Quaker Bridge, down Goodwater to Washington Turnpike, then back via Penn Swamp Road. No one went off the roads, and the park police were at Atsion when we left. I saw a few dirt bikes with license plates on the ride. No one broke the law. We use radios to warn of hikers and bicyclists crossing the trail. We even picked up trash. These events would not be feasible with a permit system unless you can buy a permit at Atsion on the weekends at 8am.
Wash Pike looked really chewed up around there, so I'll hazard a guess some truckers were behaving badly at some point.
An event with 300 vehicles seems very difficult to manage, where would you even stage? I'm glad it got canceled, because it seems like a nightmare for anyone else trying to use the roads they'd be taking. I don't want permits, but I've seen more Park police at Wharton and Byrne lately, and I'm thankful for that.
Wash Pike looked really chewed up around there, so I'll hazard a guess some truckers were behaving badly at some point.
An event with 300 vehicles seems very difficult to manage, where would you even stage? I'm glad it got canceled, because it seems like a nightmare for anyone else trying to use the roads they'd be taking. I don't want permits, but I've seen more Park police at Wharton and Byrne lately, and I'm thankful for that.
I don’t know if this has been posted before. This is a pinelands commission meeting from three years ago that includes an excellent presentation from John Bunnell concerning ORV damage in wetlands/spungs. The presentation itself is free from opinions and political agenda which is refreshing. I recommend checking it out. I am going to copy and paste. Hopefully that works. The presentation starts at about 28 minutes.
I did some of the survey work. I did 32 ponds, and I see he highlights one of them with photos. Important to note that only a small percentage of the total (<3%) were in parks and forestry. There is not a single member of this web site who likes to see damage to any of these ponds, and I dare say none of us would mind if access with a vehicle into the pond were blocked. But they don't need to block the road in unless it's very short anyway and has no connecting roads that lead elsewhere.
Those ponds are there to enjoy responsibly. No need to block access to the pond if it is already there. Everyone just keep your vehicles the hell out of them. It can't be any simpler than that.
There are law abiders, and there are scofflaws. Many of those who become tempted seeing the pond would think twice seeing those barricades. They work, so I support them.