Devious, Bear Swamp, Two Sawmills

[james ungehajer]

All

I started out to go to the Pines around 11:00 A.M. with the intention mostly of finding Geodetics, Property Markers, and a few Sawmills that i have never been to before, a thank you to Guy for putting together the locations, and to the people who found them. I have now viewed four of the twelve that were posted, previously the one by Ed, and another one found by Ben called the Van Note Camp, kudos to the both of you.

My first site to visit was Devious Mt. to look for the Geodetics located there, i took Tuckerton Road, entering it below the JCRR off of Carranza Road, taking the road that goes past the Sawmill Ruin found by Ed.

Arriving at Tuckerton Road from the Sawmill Road, i turned South East on Tuckerton Road going a distance to Push Line Road.

Then turning right from Tuckerton to Push Line, and traveling a distance to the first intersection, i came upon the following sign which shows the direction to Devious.

Then making a right hand turn at the intersection it was on to Devious which by my GPS reading was .69 miles away, this was my first time ever at Devious, the following is a pic of the Road going to the top of Devious.

I was out Saturday also in this area more as an exploratory venture than a picture taking op, i was with my friend George on Saturday and we found a Geocache on Devious, i did not bring my camera with me on Saturday, it was more of a joy ride in the Pines, since i have not been to them in a while.

Yesterday i soloed it as George had prior plans, arriving at Devious i cranked up my GPS and within a few minutes i found the Devious Geodetic Station Disk. Here is a pic of the Station Geodetic.

It was now time to look for the two Reference Marks that were also located here. Turning off the GPS, i then followed the Triangle line on the Geodetic to find the first Reference Mark with my data sheets in hand which shows the distance from the Station to the Reference Marks. Here is a pic of Reference Mark #1, notice the arrow, it points to where the Station is located.

Moving on to a different area i then found Reference Mark #2.

With my findings at Devious and before i left to go to another area of interest i took the following pic from the top of Devious looking South East. I found one Tick crawling up my pant leg and it was quickly dispatched to Hell.

Arriving back at the Jeep, i then rode to Push Line Road, turning left to go back to Tuckerton Road, turning right on Tuckerton Road, traveling South East on Tuckerton i noticed the following sign.

I then after a distance arrived at the first Sawmill site that i wanted to visit in the Godfrey Bridge area.

Upon leaving the site i traveled to Maxwell looking for some property markers but it was to no avail, i then went to the Godfrey Bridge area and then on to Rt.563, turning right, i traveled to Oswego Lake Road, turning right onto Oswego Lake Road, i noticed some vehicles parked at the Lake, i turned left onto Sooy Road, if people remember there was a discussion of how when Sooy at the beginning of the Road past the Lake there was a big washout, the washout has been completely repaired.

Traveling on Sooy Road North, i then made a left on Chatsworth Road and in the vicinity i then found this Property Marker, notice the word Burlington on it.

Traveling some distance further i found another Property Marker, it also has the word Burlington on it.

I then took the following pic of a Swamp, looks like PBX territory.

Upon leaving the area i then went to the Bear Swamp Hill area to look for another Geodetic, after a short search i found what i was looking for, notice the date 1889 and 1984, the Geodetic is called the Bear Swamp Reset.

I then wanted to find my second Sawmill of the day, but on the way to Hawkins Bridge i wanted to stop and see for the second time the Bear Swamp Azimuth Mark, Guys measurement to the Azimuth Mark was right on the money as always.

Traveling back to Oswego Lake, i then rode to Rt.563 making left onto the road traveling once again past Godfrey Bridge then onto my second Sawmill of the day around Hawkins Bridge, stopping the Jeep in the Canoe and Kayak parking lot, i then went on to find my second Sawmill of the day. Thanks to Bob for this find.

I then left the area thinking that maybe i should go to find another Sawmill site in the Featherbed and Shane Branch area off of Carranza Road found by PBX members, but that is for another day, i was tired and hungry and dinner was awaiting for me at home. i arrived back home around 4:30, and noticed upon getting in the shower that another tick was on me, he got the quick flush down the John.

In retrospect, it was another great day to be out in the Pines, found almost everything that i set out to find, i still have yet to find Reference Mark #2 around Bear Swamp Hill, but the Jeep was muddied, had two Ticks on me, Saturday did not get a one, but it was a great day to be out in the Woods.

Jim

 

[RednekF350]

Nice report and photos Jim.
I can't remember a bad day in the woods myself.
Scott

 

[Hewey]

Nice report. I Never looked for geodetics, I found one in vermont once by chance.

 

[james ungehajer]

Thanks Guys, now if we can just get rid of those Ticks.

Jim

 

[Teegate]

Sweet trip Jim!

You need to go to Big Hill and check out the former tower foundations and the geodetic monuments there.

Guy

 

[woodjin]

that devious area has some of the best open and topographically interesting areas of the pines. Great thinking spot if you can get out there alone.

You know, with all the time I've spent with Guy I don't think I ever asked him what it was about stones and property markers that interested him so much. The really old and forsaken ones interest me of course just because they are so old and forsaken, but I don't entirely understand the attaction of the more recent ones. I can understand the thrill of discovering them from old maps and hard to come by information but I am not certain about the desire to visit well documented markers.

Hopefully Jim and Guy, and maybe Al or anybody else could share some of the reasons they pursue this interest.

I am asking because I would like to be enlightened, not because I want to question the validity of this recreation/interest.

Jeff

 

[james ungehajer]

that devious area has some of the best open and topographically interesting areas of the pines. Great thinking spot if you can get out there alone.

You know, with all the time I've spent with Guy I don't think I ever asked him what it was about stones and property markers that interested him so much. The really old and forsaken ones interest me of course just because they are so old and forsaken, but I don't entirely understand the attaction of the more recent ones. I can understand the thrill of discovering them from old maps and hard to come by information but I am not certain about the desire to visit well documented markers.

Hopefully Jim and Guy, and maybe Al or anybody else could share some of the reasons they pursue this interest.

I am asking because I would like to be enlightened, not because I want to question the validity of this recreation/interest.

Jeff

Jeff

For me it is an interest that started when i first came onto Ben's site, i was always into the forgotten towns, ruins, history, nature aspect of the Pines going back to the late 70's, but when i started reading Guy's adventures to the various locales and the means of getting to these Stones, Markers, etc, it just stoked an instant attraction, it also expanded my whole Pine Barrens experience.

Imagine finding an incised Stone dating back to 1785, with the property owners name and or initials, or the same goes to the surveyor, if there are any ruins left from that year, and if the town still exists, a bigger picture is unraveled to me of that time period.

Of course i could never go to places that Guy and Al go to visit, i am limited in my capability in that aspect, close as possible to a Stone or Marker location is the only solution for me.

I can hardly imagine what it was like to find these objects before Loran and GPS, then it was mostly in the realm of surveyors, which all of us owe so much to.

Jim

 

[james ungehajer]

Sweet trip Jim!

You need to go to Big Hill and check out the former tower foundations and the geodetic monuments there.

Guy

Wasn't that Fire Tower at Big Hil once called the Retreat Fire Tower ? I believe and correct me if i am wrong, that the Tower was moved to Apple Pie Hill ?

Jim

 

[RednekF350]

Jeff


I can hardly imagine what it was like to find these objects before Loran and GPS, then it was mostly in the realm of surveyors, which all of us owe so much to.

Jim

I started surveying in 1975 and those were still the days of transit and tape for outbounds.
The first electronic distance measuring (EDM) transit I saw was in 1976.
They were around but not even the big outfits owned more than one or two.

I worked on several 200 acre+ wooded outbounds that were all done with transit and tape and after applying temperature a tension corrections, the results were as good as you get today with higher tech equipment.

To look for a corner marker you pre-calculated your coordinates and set up your field traverse to get yourself to those coordinate locations as you went around the tract. If it was practical, we would cut the boundary line in as our traverse leg. If we didn't follow the boundary, we calculated our way back on track. This was also a time of minimalist calculators and we had to carry trig tables in the truck to solve our triangles.

A lot has changed with the advent of gps and it is not all good.
We are essentially seeing a generation of young surveyors working in the field with all of their faith bundled into the electronics and no math or surveying backgound to help them figure out even the most basic solution to a field problem.

Ironically, the requirements for professional licensure are as stringent as they have ever been, requiring a bachelors in land surveying, 6 years experience and passing a 16 hour written exam.
The days of the field man learning everything he needed from his party chief and other co-workers as he progressed in his career are over.
The common sense and practical knowledge needed to be a good surveyor has been replaced with the ability to know which button to push.

Scott

 

[bobpbx]

To look for a corner marker you pre-calculated your coordinates and set up your field traverse to get yourself to those coordinate locations as you went around the tract.

I was thinking of surveying practices yesterday. I put up a fence 8 years ago at the end of my vacant lot next door. I knew where my marker was on my developed property, so I used a 100 foot tape to mark the end of the vacant lot. There was no marker around, so I drove a pipe in the ground. I then set back 6 inches towards my side to give the adjacent land owner benefit of doubt and put my fence up.

Now it seems everyone is using the pipe I put in to mark that property line. I see ribbons tied to it etc. I could not have been dead-on, so whats the deal? I think they are taking too much for granted, and should not rely on my pipe.

 

[james ungehajer]

Sweet trip Jim!

You need to go to Big Hill and check out the former tower foundations and the geodetic monuments there.

Guy

Guy

Isn't the Big Hill area one big residential community now ? I wonder if anything can still be found there.

 

[Teegate]

Guy

I wonder if anything can still be found there.

I'll tell you again Jim. Drive to the manned gate at Leisuretown and tell them you want to go to “Lookout Park Nature Center.” They should let you through as they did me and you drive to here.


http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.896966&lng=-74.6957621&z=16&type=k&gpx=


Once there you can find the foundations shown below of the former fire tower. Notice where the tower bolted to it. The geodetic monument is right inside the cement as you can see, and there are others that you must find nearby. There is a nice bench to sit and look around, and a semi nice view.

Remember, this is a private community and they may not let you in. And if they do, make sure you respect the people and their homes by being quiet and not staying long. I parked on the side with the park, walked in, took some photo's and searched around, visited the bench, and then left.

Guy

 

[james ungehajer]

Thanks Guy, on my next outing i will stop there first and see if they let me in, i should qualify for entrance since i am over 55.

Jim

 

[james ungehajer]

I started surveying in 1975 and those were still the days of transit and tape for outbounds.
The first electronic distance measuring (EDM) transit I saw was in 1976.
They were around but not even the big outfits owned more than one or two.

I worked on several 200 acre+ wooded outbounds that were all done with transit and tape and after applying temperature a tension corrections, the results were as good as you get today with higher tech equipment.

To look for a corner marker you pre-calculated your coordinates and set up your field traverse to get yourself to those coordinate locations as you went around the tract. If it was practical, we would cut the boundary line in as our traverse leg. If we didn't follow the boundary, we calculated our way back on track. This was also a time of minimalist calculators and we had to carry trig tables in the truck to solve our triangles.

A lot has changed with the advent of gps and it is not all good.
We are essentially seeing a generation of young surveyors working in the field with all of their faith bundled into the electronics and no math or surveying backgound to help them figure out even the most basic solution to a field problem.

Ironically, the requirements for professional licensure are as stringent as they have ever been, requiring a bachelors in land surveying, 6 years experience and passing a 16 hour written exam.
The days of the field man learning everything he needed from his party chief and other co-workers as he progressed in his career are over.
The common sense and practical knowledge needed to be a good surveyor has been replaced with the ability to know which button to push.

Scott

Scott

Are the old time basics still taught ?, and does a student have to go out into the field as part of the exam test with transiy, tape, and using Geometry ?

Jim

 

[RednekF350]

Scott

Are the old time basics still taught ?, and does a student have to go out into the field as part of the exam test with transiy, tape, and using Geometry ?

Jim

It seems that the basics are now taught only in the college programs, whereas twenty five years ago, the average half wit coming out of high school had some basic algebra, geometry and trig exposure.
The surveying profession used to be learned from the ground up by a person with a good foundation in math.
The exam is 16 hours of calculations and law.

Today, with the degree requirement, the learning process is reversed.
You start in college and pickup 4 years of high tech, mostly unuseable study and then you go out to get your real world experience.
That does not usually produce a good ground surveyor at the end.

The surveying profession has seen a lot of attrition in the last 20 years and there are not a lot of people interested in the field.
When I attend my mandatory continuing education classes each year, it's always interesting to see who got fatter, balder, grayer or dead.

 

[Teegate]

The surveying profession has seen a lot of attrition in the last 20 years and there are not a lot of people interested in the field.
When I attend my mandatory continuing education classes each year, it's always interesting to see who got fatter, balder, grayer or dead.

I enjoy trudging through the woods, but I can see that if you don't surveying there could be a nightmare. Most young people today don't want to spend the energy.

Guy