Father And Two Sons Die From Hypothermia While Hiking

Old Crazy

Explorer
Oct 13, 2007
481
94
Stinking Creek, NJ
Even wool? I always thought that wool was good even wet.
I have heard people argue both sides of that. Some think wool keeps you warm when it's wet, some don't. From my own experience I can say that wool is more resistant to absorbing water, it wicks moisture away from your body efficiently, and it is more comfortable than other fabrics, but today was a perfect example of why I don't think it keeps you warm when it's wet. I set out on a 12 mile hike this morning wearing trail running sneakers and Smart Wool socks on my feet, not realizing there was 1"-2" of snow in the pine barrens. We only had a very light dusting in Cape May County. After about five miles the first third of my feet were soaking wet from the snow melting due to my body heat, and my feet started getting cold. At eight miles my toes were throbbing. By the time I finished my hike, I couldn't even feel my toes. My feet got very cold in wet wool socks, while the rest of my body that was dry stayed warm.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,154
4,258
Pines; Bamber area
I set out on a 12 mile hike this morning wearing trail running sneakers and Smart Wool socks on my feet, not realizing there was 1"-2" of snow in the pine barrens. We only had a very light dusting in Cape May County. After about five miles the first third of my feet were soaking wet from the snow melting due to my body heat, and my feet started getting cold. At eight miles my toes were throbbing. By the time I finished my hike, I couldn't even feel my toes. My feet got very cold in wet wool socks, while the rest of my body that was dry stayed warm.

I'm sure there is some science related to your experience in why you were wet and cold even though you were wearing wool. Sneakers with wool socks with snow on the ground is an odd combination, even you must admit that.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,143
Coastal NJ
An excellent article on freezing and what happens to the body, from many years back;

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...-Chill--Then-Stupor--Then-the-Letting-Go.html

Chilly up north, check the wind chill :D

conditions.png
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,552
2,465
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
I'm sure there is some science related to your experience in why you were wet and cold even though you were wearing wool. Sneakers with wool socks with snow on the ground is an odd combination, even you must admit that.
I've seen Cody Lundin in the mountains with a foot of snow walking in just wool socks then again Cody is quite unconventional.
 

Old Crazy

Explorer
Oct 13, 2007
481
94
Stinking Creek, NJ
I'm sure there is some science related to your experience in why you were wet and cold even though you were wearing wool. Sneakers with wool socks with snow on the ground is an odd combination, even you must admit that.
When I howl like a wolf to the tune of Sinatra's "My way," while I'm hiking, that's odd, but wearing wool socks specifically tailored for hiking with sneakers is not odd. :D I'm a footwear minimalist. I cringe when I see people walking the pines in heavy boots. Trail running sneakers are all I ever wear in the pines. Anything heavier than that on flat, sandy ground is overkill and unnecessary. In 6,000+ miles walking the pines in sneakers and wool socks, I have never gotten a blister.

Now when I hiked the Appalachian Trail in boots, I got plenty of blisters. Then I went to a seminar taught by Warren Doyle (who has thru-hiked the AT 16 times in Keds sneakers) and he showed me the advantages of sneakers over boots (less weight, more range of movement, much smaller risk of blisters)

The one caveat to sneakers is that they absorb water and get wet, so they're not a good choice for walking in the snow or in water, but outside of those two conditions, they're the best thing you can wear on your feet hiking the pines.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,552
2,465
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
You must have strong ankles.I don't.Twisted the left one a few times bad when young and now have arthritis in it.Ankles were always weak,I like high top boots laced tight to keep em from flipping on me again.I do like sneakers fro creek shoes in summer.I've never minded wet feet as long as it wasn't too cold .Hiking in the mountains in sneakers would get me a broken ankle real fast thouhg for barrens hiking in warm weather it would work fine for me.
 

piker56

Explorer
Jan 13, 2006
640
53
67
Winslow
I've gone through stages. I almost always hiked alone in any weather. I carried a complete change of clothes, plus 2 extra pair of wool socks, double bagged in plastic. Matches and lint in the "old fashioned" fiber egg cartons for fire starter. A tarp for emergency shelter. Then, one time I fell in a swamp and almost went deep enough to get stuck, with all my emergency provisions safely on dry ground 50 feet away. My hiking stick saved me. I am now not only am careful what I carry, but also where I am. I hiked the Smokies once, but quickly realized I was out on my league and turned around. Denise and I hiked Shenandoah off trail once, with almost tragic results. I've since learned to recognize my limitations without feeling like a wimp. You reach a point where you no longer need to prove anything to anyone. I was fortunate enough to realize it before my family had to attend my funeral because of a mistake I made in the woods. I'd rather leave this world asleep in my bed, dreaming of the woods, than freeze to death in them.
Greg
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,143
Coastal NJ
I have heard people argue both sides of that. Some think wool keeps you warm when it's wet, some don't. From my own experience I can say that wool is more resistant to absorbing water, it wicks moisture away from your body efficiently, and it is more comfortable than other fabrics, but today was a perfect example of why I don't think it keeps you warm when it's wet. I set out on a 12 mile hike this morning wearing trail running sneakers and Smart Wool socks on my feet, not realizing there was 1"-2" of snow in the pine barrens. We only had a very light dusting in Cape May County. After about five miles the first third of my feet were soaking wet from the snow melting due to my body heat, and my feet started getting cold. At eight miles my toes were throbbing. By the time I finished my hike, I couldn't even feel my toes. My feet got very cold in wet wool socks, while the rest of my body that was dry stayed warm.

Crazy, if you haven't already, you might try sock liners under your socks. I also use Smart Wool socks, best I have found. When I used to ski my feet would get very cold due to perspiration, the liners solved that. They are very thin and come in silk and polypropolene; I use the poly as it's much cheaper. Always use them when hiking as they help reduce chances of blistering. Once the wool gets soaking wet, the moisture from the wet wool that touches your body causes the cold. At least that's how it was expainled to me, made sense. They also make them as glove liners, work just as good for the hands.

Wool, the miracle fiber. It actually changes the characteristics of H2O chemically.

"Wet Wool

by Charles W. Bryant

Like we said, wool can soak up a lot of moisture without feeling wet. This makes wool a hygroscopic insulator. The crimp in the wool fiber forces each strand to butt against each other, as opposed to lining up side by side or laying down flat together. This keeps the tiny air pockets intact, acting as little insulators -- the key to being able to keep you both warm and cool. Air has the ability to move heat by convection -- in other words, by moving and circulating. Through convection, air can transport heat from one place to another. When air is contained in very small pockets, it can't circulate easily, so heat is retained. Same goes for cold. Think Styrofoam cooler -- the Styrofoam's tiny pockets of air act as an insulator for heat or cold (depending on what's inside the cooler). The same concept goes for wool.

There's also some science at work here. Wool fibers are made up of cortical cells, and these cells are wrapped in cuticle. This scaly outer layer is then covered by yet another layer, the epicuticle -- a filmy skin that helps to repel moisture. What's more, the epicuticle also helps out in high humidity because it has tiny pores that draw in the moisture vapor to the center of the fiber where it's absorbed by a chemical process. The hydrogen bond of water, H2O, is actually broken, creating a chemical reaction with the wool fiber molecules to generate heat when it has taken on a lot of moisture. But because the air pockets allow moisture to evaporate from your skin, you won't overheat when you sweat.

The combination of the fiber's natural crimp and the chemical and physical processes that take place when wool meets moisture make it the best all-season natural insulator on earth. It actually absorbs water from both your skin and the atmosphere around you to create a dry and warm environment where it counts -- against your body. So the next time you pass a herd of sheep standing around in the pouring rain looking dopey, remember the complexity of their protective coat."
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,154
4,258
Pines; Bamber area
The one caveat to sneakers is that they absorb water and get wet, so they're not a good choice for walking in the snow or in water, but outside of those two conditions, they're the best thing you can wear on your feet hiking the pines.

Okay, thanks for the advice.
 

Old Crazy

Explorer
Oct 13, 2007
481
94
Stinking Creek, NJ
Crazy, if you haven't already, you might try sock liners under your socks. I also use Smart Wool socks, best I have found. When I used to ski my feet would get very cold due to perspiration, the liners solved that. They are very thin and come in silk and polypropolene; I use the poly as it's much cheaper. Always use them when hiking as they help reduce chances of blistering. Once the wool gets soaking wet, the moisture from the wet wool that touches your body causes the cold. At least that's how it was expainled to me, made sense. They also make them as glove liners, work just as good for the hands.

Wool, the miracle fiber. It actually changes the characteristics of H2O chemically.

"Wet Wool

by Charles W. Bryant

Like we said, wool can soak up a lot of moisture without feeling wet. This makes wool a hygroscopic insulator. The crimp in the wool fiber forces each strand to butt against each other, as opposed to lining up side by side or laying down flat together. This keeps the tiny air pockets intact, acting as little insulators -- the key to being able to keep you both warm and cool. Air has the ability to move heat by convection -- in other words, by moving and circulating. Through convection, air can transport heat from one place to another. When air is contained in very small pockets, it can't circulate easily, so heat is retained. Same goes for cold. Think Styrofoam cooler -- the Styrofoam's tiny pockets of air act as an insulator for heat or cold (depending on what's inside the cooler). The same concept goes for wool.

There's also some science at work here. Wool fibers are made up of cortical cells, and these cells are wrapped in cuticle. This scaly outer layer is then covered by yet another layer, the epicuticle -- a filmy skin that helps to repel moisture. What's more, the epicuticle also helps out in high humidity because it has tiny pores that draw in the moisture vapor to the center of the fiber where it's absorbed by a chemical process. The hydrogen bond of water, H2O, is actually broken, creating a chemical reaction with the wool fiber molecules to generate heat when it has taken on a lot of moisture. But because the air pockets allow moisture to evaporate from your skin, you won't overheat when you sweat.

The combination of the fiber's natural crimp and the chemical and physical processes that take place when wool meets moisture make it the best all-season natural insulator on earth. It actually absorbs water from both your skin and the atmosphere around you to create a dry and warm environment where it counts -- against your body. So the next time you pass a herd of sheep standing around in the pouring rain looking dopey, remember the complexity of their protective coat."

Thanks, 46er, that's good information about wool.

I do wear sock liners on occassion, if it's really cold. But more often than not I wear them when it's hot instead of socks.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,143
Coastal NJ
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