February Stone Searching in Cumberland County

Teegate

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Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
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Al,

Today was another early morning start in the never ending search for property stones. Armed with an ever increasing library of clues we started our morning in the quest for the “Shingle Stone.” This particular stones is somewhat of a mystery to me; however, I am going to assume the owner of the property at one time was named Shingle. The first one to arrive was Jessica, and she had the distinction of finding the first stone of the day.


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Next we bushwhacked through an interesting Cedar Swamp heading for our next destination named the “Blue Stone.” On our way there Al noticed a snare right in the middle of the road. They had downed a tree and placed the snare under it almost forcing any animal who traveled the road to go thought it. A little investigating reveled there was a copper band which most likely revealed the owners info. The snare appeared to be legal, and since I was enlightened from Ben’s incident with disturbing a snare, we left it alone.



Notice the snare with vegetation hooked to it for camouflage.


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Then to the Blue Stone which isn’t blue at all. Someone is colored blind!



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Another Cedar Swamp was on our route, and in the middle of it I found the huge remains of the base of a cedar tree that I would have loved to have viewed when it was alive. Al would have fit inside the hole in it.


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Then a long walk ahead to a stone we spent many hours researching and looking for in the past. This time we were better prepared and arrived there to dismal results. Jessica fell down and could not get up, and while helping her up I saw what we had come for. Unfortunately, it was anti climatic since the stone was really small. This was the intersection of the Society and Scott line, and we thought it would have been more impressive.



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Arriving back at the cars we were accosted by the Park Service Police on an ATV who questioned what we were doing. Fortunately, our knowledge of the state property in the area allowed us to prove to them beyond a shadow of a doubt that were had been traveling on state property legally. That and a few pertinent photo’s in my camera, along with Jessica being with us and Al’s excellent conversation with them, we were quickly left alone to continue on. It was obvious though that if you drove down that road on an unregistered motorcycle which were in abundance in the woods nearby, you were toast!



The next couple locations were equally dismal and one was quite challenging, Jessica came out of that one with quite a few bruises from falling down. She also lost her hat and water bottle forcing us to retrace our steps back thought the nightmare to find them. When we arrived at the next road we ran her over with the car and left her there. Maybe by tomorrow someone will go down this road and find her.


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We then visited a few more stones. Al names them all different so they are not accidently deleted from his GPS, so he may post their names.


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And finally, while exploring the woods we came upon this hunters tree house. It was not on state property but rumor has it there was a comfortable folding chair in it, along with a nice table, a heater with a propane tank outside, sliding plexiglass windows, and the most amazing urinal ever made. Something about just stepping out the door and using a gasoline funnel bolted to the railing with a pipe leading to the ground to drain it. Nothing like creature comfort while you shoot the creatures.

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Guy
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
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You know Guy I shoulda realized that stone was at the society scott crossing but it didn't click till i read this post .I knew the one line was a society line but it didn't click the other line was the southern extension of the scott line till you wrote it.I lost the big picture while plotting the little one:)As to stone names I think I will name the one after the jessica road pizza photo the white stone since we remarked how white it was.The one below that would be the T.C. stone I guess for obvious reasons to all present and the one i found today after you and jess split i will name the compton stone and if any of the others are found it will become the compton SE stone for the se corner. The tough area 1 stone we found I guess could be the tough stone but that one wasn't tough at all so how about the rebar stone? We do need to go over all the stones down here and make sure we have the same names for em.My gps will eat a stone quick if it is too similar to another one in it.
by the way me you and jess looked for 11 stones.we found 7.I looked for another 4 and found 1 so thats a total of 8 out of 15.not a bad day.I believe there are 15 more to look for at the moment with one no doubt history but i will look anyway.
I am draggin butt,I'd swear I had worms if i didn't know better:)
Al
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,965
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I am draggin butt,I'd swear I had worms if i didn't know better:)
Al

Okay Al, I will add those names to my records. I also am dragging. Basically for us it was 6 hours of walking, and you had a little more.

Guy
 

NJBill

Explorer
Sep 10, 2008
120
2
Hamilton (Mercer County)
Nice trip report and photos guys.
Poor Jessica! I was LMAO off at that one!

I'd like a little more insight on two things if you would. One being the whole snare thing. Can you share on Al's prior experience and more importantly how common are these? I guess I looked at that and was thinking if you had a dog with you?

Secondly I guess I was somewhat confused with the interaction with the park police, then again maybe I missed something as to where you were? Why even the hassle of conversaton with them.

Bill
 
Oct 25, 2006
1,757
1
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Looks like you all had a great day, nice photos as always, more stone mysteries are being unveiled. Nice report. Is Jessica ok ?

Jim
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
www.youtube.com
Nice trip report and photos guys.
Poor Jessica! I was LMAO off at that one!

I'd like a little more insight on two things if you would. One being the whole snare thing. Can you share on Al's prior experience and more importantly how common are these? I guess I looked at that and was thinking if you had a dog with you?

Secondly I guess I was somewhat confused with the interaction with the park police, then again maybe I missed something as to where you were? Why even the hassle of conversaton with them.

Bill

If you had a dog with you and he ran into the snare you could easily release him.These are not spring snares that yank an animal off the ground and occasionally break their necks,this is a slow choke to death type that the animal makes worse by yanking on till he strangles to death.in that case as long as you found your dog quickly he would be ok but God help your dog if your no where around.
As to why we were talking to the rangers their were motorcycles back in the woods riding in a gravel pit which is on private property.without the owners consent they couldn't bust them but they were waiting out on the public road we were parked on to nab them when they left the woods on their non street legal bikes.They were watching our vehicles from a half mile up the road and when we walked out they came barreling down the road on little four by four carts which by the way are also not street legal.They thought we might have been cyclers that they hoped to bust.We were parked adjacent to an old r r grade owned by belleplain state forest and if they had caught the bikes on the grade they could have busted them for being on state property.They were actually quite pleasant once they realized we weren't law breakers.They accepted our story and didn't treat us like we were liars which is what really pisses me off about law enfo types but they are trained that everyone lies which in reality every one does occasionally but when I'm not lying I really get ticked when someone acts as if i am and these guys did not do that.They were right nice chaps.
Al
 

NJBill

Explorer
Sep 10, 2008
120
2
Hamilton (Mercer County)
Thanks Al for the details. Being a newbie out there for the most part and often with my dog, it raised some concerns. I appreciate the detailed explanation on how they work.

Glad to hear it was a respectful conversation with the law boys and again, thanks for a better understanding of the circumstances behind it all.

I always enjoy the detail of your reports and of course the humor that often goes along.

Bill
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,965
8,707
Nice trip report and photos guys.
Poor Jessica! I was LMAO off at that one!

I'd like a little more insight on two things if you would. One being the whole snare thing. Can you share on Al's prior experience and more importantly how common are these? I guess I looked at that and was thinking if you had a dog with you?

Secondly I guess I was somewhat confused with the interaction with the park police, then again maybe I missed something as to where you were? Why even the hassle of conversaton with them.

Bill

A few years back Ben took his dog with him to the pines where it became stuck in a snare. He was able to get to it before it had died, and in frustration he ripped the snare out and took it home. He reported it to the powers that be and in an email back to him they basically told him he had illegally tampered with a legal snare. It the owner of the snare puts his info on it as it should be, and it is legally set, you are not allowed to touch it. So if you come upon one it is best to stay away from it.

We were told yesterday by park police that the person who set the snare has to check it everyday, and Al and I had not noticed any footprints in the snow. This means they had not been there in some time, but we were told they may have been able to see it from a distance and may have not left any prints. I personally think they had not been there.

If you come upon one and do look at it, you should see a copper band rolled up. On that band will be their identification number stamped on it, but most likely you will not be able to see it since it is rolled up.

Guy
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
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60
millville nj
www.youtube.com
A few years back Ben took his dog with him to the pines where it became stuck in a snare. He was able to get to it before it had died, and in frustration he ripped the snare out and took it home. He reported it to the powers that be and in an email back to him they basically told him he had illegally tampered with a legal snare. It the owner of the snare puts his info on it as it should be, and it is legally set, you are not allowed to touch it. So if you come upon one it is best to stay away from it.

We were told yesterday by park police that the person who set the snare has to check it everyday, and Al and I had not noticed any footprints in the snow. This means they had not been there in some time, but we were told they may have been able to see it from a distance and may have not left any prints. I personally think they had not been there.

If you come upon one and do look at it, you should see a copper band rolled up. On that band will be their identification number stamped on it, but most likely you will not be able to see it since it is rolled up.

Guy

I can't blame Ben for being pissed. I think choking snares should be illegal.Spring snares are a lot quicker.Most of these snares are apparently set for coyote which is probably about the size of Bens dog.Are they eating these coyotes?I doubt it.Then why are they killing them?
Al
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,965
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. Is Jessica ok ?

Jim

She has a serious bruise on the back of her leg. It is hard to even look at and not feel the pain. She fell on the ice once, and numerous times I had to pull her off the ground. She is seriously vertically challenged and she will be the first to admit it.

Guy
 

NJBill

Explorer
Sep 10, 2008
120
2
Hamilton (Mercer County)
Thanks for the additional info on the snare traps Al and Guy. Are their limtations as to where these can be placed or is it pretty much just anywhere? Have to be honest, it really has me thinking twice about running the dog now.

Bill
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,344
334
Near Mt. Misery
Bill, I can understand your concern but they are fairly uncommon. Scott could tell you how dangerous they are to your dog and when you are most likely to come across one. You might want to PM him (redneck350).

Bob takes his dog Buddy out all over the place and has not had a problem (as far as I know). I think Ben had some particularly bad luck that day.

Jeff
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,057
3,328
Pestletown, N.J.
Thanks for the additional info on the snare traps Al and Guy. Are their limtations as to where these can be placed or is it pretty much just anywhere? Have to be honest, it really has me thinking twice about running the dog now.

Bill

There are no limitations as to where snares can be set but one has to excercise common sense and consideration for others when setting them.
I received my snare certification two years ago but have not had the time to get serious until this year.
I have had a bait set and several trail sets out since Christmas and have only had knock downs so far and no catches. After the snow last week I made some adjustments and hope to have at least one successful catch this year. I am learning a lot and enjoying every minute.
Believe it or not, snares are not designed to kill. Experienced trappers will tell you that 99% of their catch is sitting there waiting when they arrive.
When you take the snare cert class they stress that the proper name is cable body restraint. It's what Fish and Wildlife calls them in the regs.
Most pictures I have seen in trapping litearture and hunting websites show the animal waiting and not dead. Final dispatch is with .22 shorts or you can release unwanted species.
I purchaesd my snares locally and the trapper puts the slogan "Like a dog on a leash" on his packaging.
I would not worry about running your dog as long as you are with him.
I have run my dog everywhere throughout the pines and worry more about broken beer bottles.
The snare lock releases fairly easily although I am sure your dog will be a handfull while you are trying to get it off.
Guy is correct, snares must be checked every 24 hours and the snare must be tagged with the owner's identification number or name and address.
Trapping in NJ has seen drop in participants over the last twenty years and your chances of coming across snare sets are slim. In 2007 there were only 678 trappers in the entire state.
I spend more time in the woods than you can imagine and have only come across the snares of others one time.

Here is some data and demograhics of the trapper.
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/trapper_survey06-07.pdf

Here are prior years' data:
Select a year
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/trapping_info.htm

You will note that there has been a slight increase in the number of trappers in the last few years.
If people would do a better job of dragging their kids into the woods and away from the Wii,
maybe that number will rise.
My sons have been licensed hunters since the age of 10 (they are now 22 and 23) My oldest is snare certified and my youngest is going to get his this year.


Scott
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
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millville nj
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Scott,

Why are spring snares illegal? As a kid I used to practice on the neighbors cats(remember I was a kid) and i would immediately run over and cut tem loose and return them to earth.They stayed away from our trash cans after that experience.Seems to me something that would kill a critter in a few minutes would be more humane then slowly choking it to death.
You say the snares are not designed to kill? Do they grab the critter by the foot? The one me and Guy found was set at head height for a dog size critter.It definitely wasn't going to catch a leg.could very well have caught a deer.if the deer chose to go under the log instead of jumping it.the noose was big enough for a deer size head and the ranger himself said that it happens quite frequently.Are deadfalls being used at all these days?If properly set they kill immediately.I used to catch squirrels and cats in deadfalls with milk crates and wooden boxes instead of heavy back breaking objects.luckily I never caught a skunk as did a friend of mine.
Al
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,057
3,328
Pestletown, N.J.
Scott,

You say the snares are not designed to kill? Do they grab the critter by the foot? The one me and Guy found was set at head height for a dog size critter.It definitely wasn't going to catch a leg.could very well have caught a deer.if the deer chose to go under the log instead of jumping it.the noose was big enough for a deer size head and the ranger himself said that it happens quite frequently.
Al

Al,
I like the spring snare story! I have quite a few cats hangin' around here that could use a lesson or two.
The snares are not set to grab a foot, they are designed to restrain by the neck or body after an animal passes through.
What you came across is a coyote snare. As you said, "head height for a dog size critter".
Mistake catches on deer are not too common and there are rules in place that help prevent the law abiding trapper from making mistake catches.
The max loop diameter for a snare is 12" and it must have a permanent metal stop on the loop. You must also have a "deer stop" on your snare that prevents the loop from closing all the way and snaring a deer by the foot. These are set at 6" from your snare end and make a minimum loop size of about 2" in diameter.
When trying for fox and coyote, the max height above the ground for the top of the loop is 24". This keeps the bottom of the loop at 12" off the ground and your loop center at just 18", a little low for the average deer.
The 12" max diameter will limit most deer, with ears extended, from passing through.
Most trappers I have asked say that deer just trample their sets.
The thing I like about trapping is the amount of detail that you must be able to determine from finding few tracks and the excitement you get by visiting your sets each morning in the early dawn.
I have been speaking with the guy who taught my class and he has been giving me pointers on what I might be doing wrong and I have been tweaking things a little.
Now, all I have to do is be successful.
 
Oct 25, 2006
1,757
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Thank Scott on the info on the .22 cal rifle, i thought only muzzle loader and shotgun were the only weapons that you could hunt with in N.J.

I use to own a 22 mag rifle, bolt action, clip fed with scope.

Jim
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
2,586
60
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Al,
I like the spring snare story! I have quite a few cats hangin' around here that could use a lesson or two.
The snares are not set to grab a foot, they are designed to restrain by the neck or body after an animal passes through.
What you came across is a coyote snare. As you said, "head height for a dog size critter".
Mistake catches on deer are not too common and there are rules in place that help prevent the law abiding trapper from making mistake catches.
The max loop diameter for a snare is 12" and it must have a permanent metal stop on the loop. You must also have a "deer stop" on your snare that prevents the loop from closing all the way and snaring a deer by the foot. These are set at 6" from your snare end and make a minimum loop size of about 2" in diameter.
When trying for fox and coyote, the max height above the ground for the top of the loop is 24". This keeps the bottom of the loop at 12" off the ground and your loop center at just 18", a little low for the average deer.
The 12" max diameter will limit most deer, with ears extended, from passing through.
Most trappers I have asked say that deer just trample their sets.
The thing I like about trapping is the amount of detail that you must be able to determine from finding few tracks and the excitement you get by visiting your sets each morning in the early dawn.
I have been speaking with the guy who taught my class and he has been giving me pointers on what I might be doing wrong and I have been tweaking things a little.
Now, all I have to do is be successful.



I work with a trapper.he traps the salt marshes of the maurice river.mostly muskrat and mink.I think theirs something like a one otter a year limit.I am the only one at work who can understand why he would be out in the marsh on a cold winter morning risking falling through.
I do occasional brain tanning of buckskin and am knowledgeable about hair off tanning.There is actually more work involved to keep the hair on a deer hide then to just take it off. I would like to learn to tan furbearing hides then I could make a nice coat.I know momma would steal it from me:) I'd like to get into brain tanning again but i don't have the time for hunting (this winter excepted since I'm laid off,now i don't have the money) and I've had friends give me skins but most skins are tore up bad by bad skinning jobs with a knife.If I could find someone who knows how to take off a hide without cutting it up I'd pay 10 bucks a hide for a good hide. I'd skin em myself but most don't think to call me till the deed is done and then show up with a holey hide.
Al
 
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