Garmin Birdseye® question.....

[46er]

I've loaded a couple of BE files to my Oregon's aux storage card. When going to select one of them I am given all of them and no way that I can find to select just one. What I have done is create 2 files of an area; one is at the highest detail and focuses on a certain area, the other is at high detail for an area that includes the highest section. Size limitation prevents doing the entire area at highest. I would like to select from one or the other. Am I out of luck, or is there a method to satisfy my madness? This may have been discussed before, but I could not find anything. Thanks.

 

[Boyd]

Yeah, I'm afraid you're out of luck. Birdseye settings are global - on or off. However if you purchase different Birdseye "products" - such as their new USGS 4k Topo's, they can be enabled separately from aerial imagery. FWIW, I have all of this on a 16GB card for my Montana (somehow I managed to miss a couple areas when I copied the files to unlock on the Montana ). I don't usually install it all though because it slows down startup time. The total of everything shown here is about 14GB, so you should be able to fit all of the pines on an 8GB card at highest quality.

I remember that Guy posted a screenshot of everything he downloaded and it covered the whole pines at full resolution also IIRC. If you don't want to do this however, maybe you could make a "custom map" using the low res imagery, and use Birdseye for the high res, since they can be turned on/off separately.

 

[46er]

Thanks Boyd. I was trying to get areas around the country that I have/will be visiting in BE onto the aux card, a 'bucket list' so to speak. There is a noticable difference between high and highest detail and I was using high for the entire area and highest for those of special interest, like specific trout streams. If it were a bit more convenient to swap cards I'd just do it on separate ones, and may just do that anyway.

Do you know why there is a restriction on highest? I think you mentioned you thought it might be due to Garmins servers getting overloaded?

 

[Boyd]

Not sure what you mean by "restriction". I have not downloaded anything for awhile myself. Evidently they had some issues where files were not really downloading at full quality but supposedly that was fixed. Birdseye questions are usually discussed here: https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=179

Some specific issues in this thread: https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=19882. I have not been following it very closely myself.

 

[Teegate]

The only restriction on highest that I can think of is the download size. I am somewhat confused on the problem you are having.

Guy

 

[46er]

Not sure what you mean by "restriction".

By restriction I mean when you select an area and use the highest detail setting, if it is too large there is a message shown that states that and tells you to either change the boundaries of the area or reduce the detail level. From what I can see, the limit is 232mb. The download button is locked until something is changed. Screen capture with an extreme size example of message below.

 

[Teegate]

Yes, that is the way they have it set up for some reason. Maybe they want to eliminate large downloads on their servers. I really would like to know why they do that since I spent a good portion of my life getting the maps I have. I have them backed up so I should never loose them as long as I have this GPS.

It is interesting how different the PC version looks than the Mac. Then again I have not downloaded the newesrt version of the software so maybe they do look similar now.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

It's funny how perceptions of size have changed as memory gets cheaper, such that 232MB is now considered "small". Over a year ago I did some rough calculations using the highest quality option and found that a square mile was about 2.5 MB. So the 232MB limit should give you something approaching 100 square miles (file size varies depending on the image). That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me for imagery with 2 foot per pixel resolution. You can queue up multiple downloads and the next one will start after the first one finishes, so that's sort of a work-around.

As I said, it's been a long time since I downloaded anything so I don't know what may have changed recently.

 

[Teegate]

You would think then that as memory "perceptions" change, Garmin would change their software to coincide. So one year ago when I was able to download 232MB, I should now be able to download much more. That has not happened.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

I'm sure it has to do with load balancing on their servers. Birdseye is only one thing they're pumping out. They now sell many models with lifetime map updates, they have smartphone apps that stream data to your phone, they have new Birdseye products.

I'm all for larger downloads too, but really don't see why this is such an issue when you can queue up multiple downloads and let them run overnight or when you're at work. When they had the large download size, it would frequently freeze on me and force me to start all over again, maybe wasting a few hours. If the smaller "chunks" are more efficient and less error-prone, that's a good thing IMO.

Aside from that, you get a LOT of data for $30, so I am willing to put up with whatever the issues are.

 

[46er]

It's funny how perceptions of size have changed as memory gets cheaper, such that 232MB is now considered "small".

I'm used to dealing in terms like terrabytes from my work days. Anything less than a gig isn't counted

You would think then that as memory "perceptions" change, Garmin would change their software to coincide. So one year ago when I was able to download 232MB, I should now be able to download much more. That has not happened.

Garmin would probably have to upgrade their servers and communications, and by now you would think they should have a good idea how much of an upgrade they would need to do. It's the cost of doing business. Maybe they will eventually; for right now they choose not to, probably no one is beating on their door to do so. Compared to photo hosting sites and the amount of data they move around, a 1-2 gig limit would seem reasonable for Gamin. In North America, their revenue in the second qtr fell 21%, which most likely contributes to the reason they aren't upgrading things, but that might be very shortsighted.

when you can queue up multiple downloads and let them run overnight

How do you go about queing multiple downloads? When I tried to begin another one while one was running nothing happened.

 

[Boyd]

In North America, their revenue in the second qtr fell 21%, which most likely contributes to the reason they aren't upgrading things

I think you are probably onto something there. But really, the bottom line is very simple. If you aren't happy with the service and the value for the dollar, don't buy it. In the end the free market will determine what the cost and performance should be.

Magellan just launched their own download service a few weeks ago, so maybe there will be more competition? Then there's DeLorme whose own download service offers much more choice (such as marine charts and 24k topo's) for about the same price Garmin charges for aerial imagery alone. Problem is, you then will need to switch to Magellan or DeLorme hardware, and IMO they just don't equal what Garmin offers. If you don't need a rugged outdoor-oriented unit, a smartphone is probably the best platform since there's a large choice of apps.

BTW Guy, I think you are wise to have backed everything up. Personally I think the NJ 2007 imagery that Garmin uses is very good, but in other parts of the country some people are really unhappy with Birdseye quality. You never know when Garmin or Digital Globe might decide to change to a different provider for NJ imagery. So if you're happy with what you've got now, hang onto it!

 

[Teegate]

BTW Guy, I think you are wise to have backed everything up. Personally I think the NJ 2007 imagery that Garmin uses is very good, but in other parts of the country some people are really unhappy with Birdseye quality. You never know when Garmin or Digital Globe might decide to change to a different provider for NJ imagery. So if you're happy with what you've got now, hang onto it!

I agree the 2007 high quality imagery is very good and I am happy I purchased them. I use the maps constantly but most of the time I am in the area you made me the 2005 Wharton map which I prefer more.

Do you use a screen saver? I was in Vermont and hit mine on a rock and it put a large mark on my scrren. But when I removed the screen saver the screen was fine. I installed another one and then realized it was much clearer. I need to replace them more often.

My subscription expires on 9/4

Guy

 

[Boyd]

I have never used a screen protector on any handheld device myself and haven't had any real problems. I am probably just lucky. My Oregon screen has some little scratches, and one of my Nuvi's has a big scratch. They aren't really noticeable when I use them, more so when they're turned off and inside.

I've already dropped my Montana a couple times - once on the pavement and it put a little mark on the edge of the case. Battle scars like this give a GPS some "character" over time.

 

[46er]

But really, the bottom line is very simple. If you aren't happy with the service and the value for the dollar, don't buy it. In the end the free market will determine what the cost and performance should be.

Could not agree more; for the money spent it is a tremendous deal. Does that mean I love everything about it and don't see room for improvements? Of couse not, everyone has opinions and a 'wish they had' list

I wish;

- they had a standardized format between all gps makers, but that won't happen just as it won't happen between camera makers and their RAW formats.

- the Birdseye stuff had an option to be like the map stuff; a unique file for each.

- there was an external slot for aux memory cards. The Garmin gps on my boat has one.

- map subscriptions were transferrable to different Gamin units; even if it were one at a time. The first 'wish I had' would eliminate this one.

- tiered download options; the more you pay, the faster and the more data for the download.

- that checkpoints be taken during downloads. Should I lose a connection, the download doesn' have to be started from scratch.

- there was a method to download maps and imagery from Google Earth. They provide much the same information I use at no charge.

- all maps and imagery be supported on all Garmin gps devices.

That's it, just 8

FWIW, I use screen protectors on each portable device that has a screen, but I cut my own.

 

[Teegate]

I can make it 9. I want the distance to read to at least 999 feet and not end at 527. I would prefer 10,000 feet but I doubt they will do that. But why not give me that option.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

That's a good list and I would welcome all those changes. Most of them probably aren't going to happen. For the card slot, clearly this has been done to maintain waterproof integrity. My Triton has an external slot with a rubber cover however. I'm sure they could isolate the slot from the interior (like they do with the USB connector), but I think water would damage the card.

You do know that you can make your own maps from whatever source you want... right? The size is limited however to 100 tiles at 1024x1024 pixels. They bumped this to 500 tiles on the Montana which is nice. Of course, that's nowhere near the capacity of Birdseye which is evidently 50,000 tiles. However, Garmin's .jnx format has been hacked and you can download free software to create the files, giving you the same capacity as Birdseye for your own maps. Only "gotcha" is that you must hack the unit's firmware to make this work. I have not tried myself.

Also note that ripping Google imagery and installing locally on your own device is a violation of Google Terms of Service (which say it may only be used within their own interface), so Garmin isn't ever going to officially sanction that. Google has gotten more proactive at shutting down software that can rip their images and create maps, such as Mobile Atlas Creator.

 

[46er]

For the card slot, clearly this has been done to maintain waterproof integrity. My Triton has an external slot with a rubber cover however. I'm sure they could isolate the slot from the interior (like they do with the USB connector), but I think water would damage the card.

I have their 545S on the boat and the slot is no more than a plastic flap, no rubber at all. The boat gets hosed down after use and there has never been a problem with water intrusion, although I have never done that with the unit on. When in use it has been pretty soaked from spray and rain with no ill effects. I think space to put it is more an issue, but who knows.

I'm not one to hack stuff. Bad things can happen. I rather find a way that works, albeit, it may not be exactly what I'd like.

As always, thanks for the help. You have an amzing knowledge of this stuff. So far I was able to get the entire Beartooth Highway loaded and even in HIGH it is very acceptable. I also have the St Regis Canoe Area done and the difference between HIGHEST and HIGH is noticable. Ditto for Acadia NP. The Grand Tetons, Glacier and Yellowstone NP's will take some time.

Last question, I promise. How do you queue the downloads?

A capture of Acadia at the HIGH/HIGHEST detail line, a significant difference.

 

[Teegate]

To download multiple maps at once you just do as you normally do and select an area and download it. On my Mac the download shows it downloading and I then just go back into the menu and choose to download again. I choose my area and that download starts. Then do it again and that download starts. If I had known this when I started downloading my maps I would have saved quite a bit of time.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

The white circled one is downloading, and the red one is waiting for the white to finish.