Gas prices

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
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Diesel mileage in the older diesel engines like my 7.3 (444 cu. inch) is very good Al, significantly better than with a gas engine. My truck weighs about 8,000 lbs empty and still gets 20-21 mpg all the time, even with 234,000 miles on the clock. I have a 6 speed manual trans in it too which helps with the mileage. The 5.4 gas and V-10 gas which were the other options for my truck when I bought it, get roughly 14 mpg and 11 mpg respectively. With my 38 gallon standard fuel tank, I can run my truck 760 miles to empty. A 5.4 gasser on the other hand can run 532 miles. From a road trip prospective, I can drive 4 more hours and over 200 miles further than the gasser. I go to my buddy's hunting camp in North Rome Pa, 205 miles from my driveway and come back again and still have about 18 gallons of fuel left in the tank.

Diesel engines are generally more efficient and run a very long time because they produce their peak torque at very low rpms which is why they are used in large trucks and equipment. My peak torque is at 1650 rpms, only 1,000 rpms over idle. My motor was nicknamed the Million Mile Motor and it will probably get there. My truck body won't be there with it though. :)

Heres an account of a 1.3 million mile 7.3 with my same 6 speed transmission.
I have been wanting to get a diesel to haul the camper with.My Niossan gets 17 with no camper,9 or ten with it.I know diesel engines last forever and you get the same mpg pretty much no matter what you haul. Thinking the gas mileage was bad is what has kept me from diesle.I don't likethe noise but since i backed into a tree my Nissan creaks and groan s anyway.My wife hates the smell,I kinda like it.I remember running the heat all night long in the desert winter at 25 degrees and the needle never moved.we lived in our trucks except when on the front line,then we had to live in holes next to our trucks because the heat signature made em good targets at night. we were six miles from the iraqis and could see them riding up and down the escarpment in daylight.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
611
302
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Waterford Twp
I have been wanting to get a diesel to haul the camper with.My Niossan gets 17 with no camper,9 or ten with it.I know diesel engines last forever and you get the same mpg pretty much no matter what you haul. Thinking the gas mileage was bad is what has kept me from diesle.I don't likethe noise but since i backed into a tree my Nissan creaks and groan s anyway.My wife hates the smell,I kinda like it.I remember running the heat all night long in the desert winter at 25 degrees and the needle never moved.we lived in our trucks except when on the front line,then we had to live in holes next to our trucks because the heat signature made em good targets at night. we were six miles from the iraqis and could see them riding up and down the escarpment in daylight.
The newer diesels are dead quiet, have almost no diesel smell or vibration. Leave it to the guberment to take the fun out everything!
 

Zach McGarvey

Explorer
Feb 11, 2018
214
148
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33
Woodbury / Vineland NJ
The problem with the newer diesels in light duty vehicles is all of the emissions equipment. Cooled EGR, urea injection (this is annoying but not unreliable, Diesel Particulate Filtration, etc. These systems really choke the performance and economy to the point where diesel isn't worth it for mileage alone. They also have serious reliability problems, although this has improved in the last few years. The cost of basic maintenance like oil changes and fuel filters is also several times what you would pay for a gas engine. You would have to have a real need for the towing torque for it to be worthwhile. Older diesels, like the 7.3 IDI, don't have many of these issues and have unmatched durability. Unfortunately they fall short of modern emission control standards. Big rigs and offroad equipment don't have all the emission controls mandated for light on-road vehicles, and their reliability and fuel economy has not really suffered.

That said, old or new, I'll stick with gas engines. Way less stinky, and better suited to our temperate climate.
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
611
302
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Waterford Twp
The problem with the newer diesels in light duty vehicles is all of the emissions equipment. Cooled EGR, urea injection (this is annoying but not unreliable, Diesel Particulate Filtration, etc. These systems really choke the performance and economy to the point where diesel isn't worth it for mileage alone. They also have serious reliability problems, although this has improved in the last few years. The cost of basic maintenance like oil changes and fuel filters is also several times what you would pay for a gas engine. You would have to have a real need for the towing torque for it to be worthwhile. Older diesels, like the 7.3 IDI, don't have many of these issues and have unmatched durability. Unfortunately they fall short of modern emission control standards. Big rigs and offroad equipment don't have all the emission controls mandated for light on-road vehicles, and their reliability and fuel economy has not really suffered.

That said, old or new, I'll stick with gas engines. Way less stinky, and better suited to our temperate climate.
The emissions equipment really isn't the problem, its lack of knowledge and procedure to maintain that is the problem. Granted, early on each manufacturer had their issues, but as you say have made massive improvements in performance and reliability. The maintenance cost appears higher but the service intervals are longer with a diesel, so it works out throughout the OCI and maintenance schedule to about even. Don't get me wrong, I would take a 7.3 over anything new any day, but that is a preference. OTR trucks and yellow equipment have been equipped with particulate filters and re-gen technology for quite a few years now to aid in emissions control. If I were towing anything of substantial weight I would be in a diesel for sure.
 

46er

BANNED
Mar 24, 2004
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Coastal NJ
I had considered the diesel option when shopping for a Grand Cherokee. The non-starter for me was having to add urea, goes by names like DEFBLUE and ADBLUE, to a separate tank for exhaust emissions. All new diesels from 2010 on have this requirement to meet emission standards.
 
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Zach McGarvey

Explorer
Feb 11, 2018
214
148
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Woodbury / Vineland NJ
I actually didn't know that the newer HD stuff had particulate filters. I assumed (wrongly) that they were still exempt. We rented a car in Iceland last year that was a turbo diesel four cylinder and it had none of that stuff. It got 55mpg (diesel was $12/gal) but was noisy and stank. That's also an island country with a population density comparable to Wyoming, so tailpipe emissions are the least of their worries. I don't hope diesel in light vehicles ever catches on here.
 
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Boyd

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Maybe 7 or 8 years ago, I was shopping for a new car and did a test drive of a diesel VW wagon (Passat?). It was nice, but I wondered whether it would be a hassle to find stations, what it would be like in the winter, etc. Decided against it. Lucky call, since a year or two later VW had the big diesel emissions scandal. In the end, I guess people made out pretty well on that deal if they waited long enough. But it took awhile to get resolved and there was a lot of uncertainty along the way.
 
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c1nj

Explorer
Nov 19, 2008
162
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My 1991 1-ton work truck had 190 HP and got 9 miles to the gallon.
My 2015 1-ton work truck has 385 HP and also gets 9 miles to the gallon.

Considering my 1991 truck did everything I asked it to do with less than half the horsepower, I wish I had the option of a 190 HP truck that got 18 mpg.
 

46er

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My 1991 1-ton work truck had 190 HP and got 9 miles to the gallon.
My 2015 1-ton work truck has 385 HP and also gets 9 miles to the gallon.

Considering my 1991 truck did everything I asked it to do with less than half the horsepower, I wish I had the option of a 190 HP truck that got 18 mpg.
How much torque did each make? That's what helps a truck do its work. Compared to gas, diesel makes huge gobs of it.
 
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imkms

Explorer
Feb 18, 2008
482
106
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SJ and SW FL
I had an 81 VW Diesel Rabbit and got 56 mpg on a long highway trip, 40+ around town. It was incredibly reliable, except for a couple times when the temperature got in single digits and the diesel fuel turned to jello!
 

c1nj

Explorer
Nov 19, 2008
162
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Dodge 360 V 8 gas has 292 lb.ft torque
Ford 6.2 gas V 8 has 405 lb. ft
 

enormiss

Explorer
Aug 18, 2015
260
108
43
Atco NJ
Gas was $1.95 on the way home so the diesel will stay parked where it's been since a new years road trip.
Had it not been for the virus it would have been fueled up and headed to FL tomorrow adding to the 340k miles
 
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Zach McGarvey

Explorer
Feb 11, 2018
214
148
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33
Woodbury / Vineland NJ
My 1991 1-ton work truck had 190 HP and got 9 miles to the gallon.
My 2015 1-ton work truck has 385 HP and also gets 9 miles to the gallon.

Considering my 1991 truck did everything I asked it to do with less than half the horsepower, I wish I had the option of a 190 HP truck that got 18 mpg.
The 2015 has air conditioning, a touch screen radio, power windows, and a very smooth automatic transmission as standard equipment. Also maybe a backup camera and a built-in brake controller for the trailer. It also doesn't cost much more, inflation adjusted, than in 1991. All the bells and whistles don't do anything for you (they don't for me either) but they're what sell the vehicle to the majority of buyers. Fuel economy just isn't a big factor in that market segment.