Ice Age relicts at Ground Zero

Apr 6, 2004
3,607
552
Galloway
This may not be the most appropriate forum for this thread, but it arguably pertains to archeaology. :) Actually, a Geology forum would be ideal. Say, Ben, how about making a geology forum?

September 22, 2008
Traces of the Ice Age at Ground Zero
The NY Times reports on evidence of the Ice Age that has emerged at Ground Zero, thanks for the huge excavation project there. It sounds stunning--"plummeting holes, steep cliffsides and soft billows of steel-gray bedrock, punctuated by thousands of beach-smooth cobblestones in a muted rainbow of reds and purples and greens." The area has been called the "Grand Canyon of Lower Manhattan," thanks to a glacier from 20,000 years ago. A geologist for Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers said, “As the ice passed over New Jersey, it picked up local rocks such as red shale and sandstone and gray basalt from the Palisades. As ice melted from the advancing glacier, raging streams of water flowed in front of it. The strong currents picked up the sand, gravel and boulders and carried them downstream across the World Trade Center site."

http://gothamist.com/2008/09/22/traces_of_the_ice_age_at_ground_zer.php
 

Spung-Man

Explorer
Jan 5, 2009
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geodiversity - valuing and conserving abiotic nature

Hmmmmmm....more like geology than archeology.

What’s the problem? I suggest that we cannot separate man from his natural environment. The two disciplines, geology and archeology, are inseparable historical sciences as in geoarcheology. Geographical relationships are complex, requiring many tools to understand multiple human-environmental relationships. As a geographer, I'm given permission to collaborate with other disciplines. Having done so, I’ve been provided tremendous insight towards recognizing and solving environmental problems. Archeologists (and botanists, historians, hunters, etc.) seem to have a greater interest in South Jersey landscapes than most geologists, and I wisely seek their local knowledge during various scientific pursuits.

"A common criticism of any historical science is that historians have a very difficult time proving anything. And if history cannot prove something then it must not be science" (Martin 1998: 1, One Long Experiment: Scale and Process in Earth Science).
 

Furball1

Explorer
Dec 11, 2005
378
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Florida
Actually, a Geology forum would be ideal. Say, Ben, how about making a geology forum?

No problem at all. It's about geology.
 

Spung-Man

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We're not beating a dead horse

I’m sure there is plenty of grist for the mill! South Jersey has the only ice-marginal coastal plain in North America, and is replete with geologic surprises. Colleagues are astounded at the remarkable preservation of this place, especially those from across the puddle. A recent example is found in “Featuring Soils” on Dr. Kyungsoo Yoo’s website. After a fieldtrip to South Jersey, the soil geomorphologist recently stated, “There was a brief moment that I believed that the east coast is geologically boring compared to the west. Now I don’t think so. A visit to Pine Barrens in New Jersey is one of several turning points responsible for changing my view.” Another satisfied customer!

Spung-Man
 

Spung-Man

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Recognition of landforms – the first step to their protection

This week I attended a Pinelands Science-Policy Forum, brainchild of Drexel’s Walter Bien, Principal Investigator at the Warren Grove Gunnery Range. The venue was well received, and opened a long-awaited dialogue between disparate curricula. Topics covered were fire and Pinelands ecology, landscapes and community ecology, water quality, and water supply. My hat off to the host organization, the Pinelands Preservation Alliance, for a job well done!

One small constructive criticism I have was the absence of historical perspective. I’m assured that the historical sciences like archeology, geology, and cultural geography will be addressed in future forums – hence the provocative Martin quote in my previous post. We often forget that historical sciences are sciences too, and thus deserve the same due consideration as the physical sciences. Both branches are valued knowledge-based study systems that are useful tools towards understanding the Pine Barrens.

Matt Palmer, who studied Pinelands savannah habitat, suggested during his talk that landscapes, not individual plants, need protection. I agree, let’s put land back into landscapes. Plants and animals follow terrain, and not the other way around. Biotic communities are ephemeral, especially in long-term historical timeframes. It is the critical habitat – prepared by the region’s geomorphic heritage – that makes the Pine Barrens globally unique. I am unaware of any other place where Late Pleistocene periglacial conditions and processes have so profoundly influenced a region’s physical, cultural, and biological systems.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,154
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Pines; Bamber area
This week I attended a Pinelands Science-Policy Forum, brainchild of Drexel’s Walter Bien, Principal Investigator at the Warren Grove Gunnery Range. The venue was well received, and opened a long-awaited dialogue between disparate curricula. Topics covered were fire and Pinelands ecology, landscapes and community ecology, water quality, and water supply. My hat off to the host organization, the Pinelands Preservation Alliance, for a job well done!

Mark, I wish I were a fly on the wall for that one. Why can't they open this to the public, or if not that, then at least tape if for later viewing--something similar to what CSPAN does. I am a junkie of CSPAN.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,603
8,181
They don't want you to show them up. I can hear it now, lets keep the person who visits all the savanahs and spungs as far a way as we can! :argh::bang::confused::(


Guy
 

Spung-Man

Explorer
Jan 5, 2009
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I heartily agree; scientific endeavors should become more accessible to the public since they ultimately provide research funding. Part of the problem relates to the competitive culture of the profession that manifests itself in secrecy. To this problem I apply the Peter’s Principle of Academic Entrepreneurship, which goes something like this: “Competition in academia is so intense because the stakes are so small.”

But the bigger issue has been the increasing marginalization of science by behind-closed-doors decision-makers who have rigged the system to benefit special interests. As a result there’s been a very real disconnect between knowledge and political action. I am familiar with multiple cases where scientific knowledge has been trumped by political expediency in the Pinelands. It’s not easy to rebuild a scientific consensus, so I think we must be patient while the community gets itself organized.
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,338
326
Near Mt. Misery
It may be better that we keep it a secret. Sometimes, the less people know the better. :D

Guy

I would agree with you in most situations but I think the scientific community is the exception. I think adding validity and awareness to the regions bio-uniqueness is going to become a serious factor in preservation efforts in the future. As Bob and Mark eluded to...making this knowledge public, and equally important, making it clearly understandable to the general public, is the most practical way to influence political decisions toward preservation.

Jeff
 
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