Lyme Disease - Do You Have IT too?
- Thread starter Dragonfly
- Start date
Unfortunately permethrin seems to have little effect on flying bugs, but it works incredibly well against ticks, and seems somewhat effect for chiggers. If you "sprayed first" you probably were using a DEET based insecticide and that's something entirely different. Sue is the expert here and can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's only effective while your clothes are saturated enough for it to evaporate. And it's also a repellent, it doesn't kill any bugs. Others may disagree, but I have put this to the test enough times to convince myself. DEET may be better than nothing, but it's pretty useless when it comes to keeping ticks off you. I live out in the woods and spend hours out there everyday so I've learned this the hard way.
Permethrin is something entirely different. You lay your clothes outside and spray all exposed surfaces until slightly moist, then allow them to completely dry - preferably overnight. It treats the actual fibers in your clothes, such that ticks actually fall off and die after walking across them. And it's effective enough to last two or more weeks, even if you wash the clothes. In that sense, it does accomplish what you want like Frontline would.
As I said, use the search function here to read the other threads on the topic. You won't find Permethrin in the grocery or drug store. Go to a sporting goods store and look in the camping/outdoor department. WalMart also sells it in their sporting goods department as "Permanone". But they do not have it with the other insect sprays.
I've read of treating clothes, but didn't realize it was Permethrin. This is all enlightening for me. I used Cutter and it seemed to work, but maybe I was just lucky. Thanks for sharing your expertise. I'll continue searching for answers, as you recommended.
Boyd, you're right. The repellency does depend on the volatility of the chemical. One of the big differences between DEET and pyrethriods, (besides what you mentioned about permethrin being insecticidal AND repellent while DEET is only repellent) is the way they work.
DEET acts to basically cover up the chemical receptors in the bug that it uses to locate you. It makes you chemically invisible to ticks. it is not that ticks find it repulsive, but they don't notice you. If they do find you, they may not recognize you as a host, so you are likely to see ticks walking on you, but they are oblivious that you are the tasty treat they are looking for. This concept makes it a little bit easier to understand why it doesn't work as well as permethrin.
Pyrethoids, on the other hand, ARE repulsive to ticks and most other bugs, but this is also partially reliant on the volatility of the chemical. That's why you need to reapply often. If they do come in contact with it, it will kill them, but unless it's at least a little bit volatile, they won't be repelled. Pyrethroids are great chemicals. The problem is, they've been around for a long, long time and there are a lot of problems with resistance to this class of chemistry. Some species of cattle ticks in the southern US laugh at permethrin. Scary.
DEET acts to basically cover up the chemical receptors in the bug that it uses to locate you. It makes you chemically invisible to ticks. it is not that ticks find it repulsive, but they don't notice you. If they do find you, they may not recognize you as a host, so you are likely to see ticks walking on you, but they are oblivious that you are the tasty treat they are looking for. This concept makes it a little bit easier to understand why it doesn't work as well as permethrin.
Pyrethoids, on the other hand, ARE repulsive to ticks and most other bugs, but this is also partially reliant on the volatility of the chemical. That's why you need to reapply often. If they do come in contact with it, it will kill them, but unless it's at least a little bit volatile, they won't be repelled. Pyrethroids are great chemicals. The problem is, they've been around for a long, long time and there are a lot of problems with resistance to this class of chemistry. Some species of cattle ticks in the southern US laugh at permethrin. Scary.
After clothing has been sprayed w/ permanone and you return from the woods, is it necessary to wash it separate from other clothes. I assume it is not safe for kids right?
Don't know about kids. I have two separate sets of treated clothes which I keep in a drawer by themselves, apart from my other clothes. I wash and dry them by themselves as well. But I'm sure some residue probably is passed through the dryer to other things.
Not something I particularly worry about, since the benefits of being tick-free far outweigh any possible permanone concerns for me. Of course this is something you have to decide for yourself. Do some research. I haven't seen anything to make me think that permethrin has more risk than DEET.
Not something I particularly worry about, since the benefits of being tick-free far outweigh any possible permanone concerns for me. Of course this is something you have to decide for yourself. Do some research. I haven't seen anything to make me think that permethrin has more risk than DEET.
Only recently have I started using it, and today we watched the ticks climbing our pants and at first they seem to keep coming, but eventually they start to stumble, slow down, and drop off. Jessica was very skeptical of it last week, however, today she is a believer.
I purchased mine at WalMart in Audubon and there was plenty there. It actually is called Repel Permanone Clothing & Gear Insect Repellent. The ingredient is Permethrin. I followed the instructions exactly and for both our shirts, sock, and pants it took 1 1/2 cans at $5 a can. We washed them once and it still worked as you reported previously.
Guy
Dragonfly
Cathy, I am sorry to hear this. I wish the best for you and hope you can get rid of that horrible disease.
This scares the crap out of me but I can't stay out of the woods! A not so funny thing, my husband comes home sometimes with ticks on him from working. He's an electrical contractor. Those little boogers are everywhere!
Cathy, I am sorry to hear this. I wish the best for you and hope you can get rid of that horrible disease.
This scares the crap out of me but I can't stay out of the woods! A not so funny thing, my husband comes home sometimes with ticks on him from working. He's an electrical contractor. Those little boogers are everywhere!
There is a pretty good article on the front page of the philadelphia weekly(maybe not the best source), but worth checking out. I would post a link but the page is not coming up for me(im at work and this firewall is weird). The site is philadelphiaweekly.com and the article is ticked off
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/17226/cover-story
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/17226/cover-story