Map?

B

bach2yoga

Guest
Ben,
Where did you get your topo when you went on your honeymoon?
Next week we'll be in the Yucatan, and would like to spend some time exploring the jungle.
Renee
 
B

bach2yoga

Guest
JerseyJim said:
Renee, I know you'll be bringing the camera and GPS, I know you can't post pictures here, but bring them to the next outting if you don't mind.
Jersey Jim

Sure! I'll get you those coordinates you asked about too. My GPS is in the jeep right now, and I need to recharge the batteries first, then I 'll PM them to you.

The biosphere reserve, which is also a world heritage site, has spider monkeys, jaguars, many varieties of orchids, etc. I doubt we'll see any jaguars, but I am hoping we'll see the spider monkeys in their natural setting. Supposedly in the afternoon we'll be able to see them foraging for food across the canopy top.

Thanks for the reply, Ben. Hmmm...we'll have a guide, but I really wanted a map. :?

Biosphere info:

Sian Ka’an is host to 103 mammals such as the agouti, coatimundi, opossum, gray fox, anteater, bat, jaguar, puma, ocelot, margay, jaguarondi, spider and howler monkeys, peccary, and tapirs.

· We find a variety of reptiles, among them: two species of crocodile, iguanas, basilisks, serpents, and on its beaches, 4 species of sea turtles.

· The Reserve is approximately 1/3 tropical forests, 1/3 wetlands, and 1/3 marine ecosystems.

· There are approximately 27 Mayan archeological sites found in Sian Ka’an.

Renee
 

aserdaten

Scout
Jul 26, 2003
63
0
Ormond Beach, Florida
I have been noting the continual reference to the use of the most recent quad maps on explorations, with occasional reference to the older maps such as Cook's from the 1880's (I think). Now since I have been a map collector since childhood when you could get free road maps from gas stations, and apparently some others of you have admited to having similar interests now, I thought I might refer y'all to a book published in 1973 (but is currently out of print). It is called The Mapping of New Jersey - The Men and the Art by John P. Snyder, and published by Rutgers University Press. Using Google, I was referred to Amazon.com which showed a price of $20 new, but that was way incorrect. Further down on their site and on other similar sites there were offers of used copies for close to $100. Perhaps they can be obtained cheaper than that, and I'm sure some of you hip online shoppers would find that true. The book has descriptions and illustrations of probably close to 100 old maps, dating back into the 1600's.

My primary reason for digging this book out of its secretive hiding place was to verify what I knew to be true concerning the Lawrence line separating East and West Jersey back in Colonial times. Shortly (?) after that line was established, the surveyor general of East Jersey, George Keith, was commissioned to lay out the line, only in reality to establish a new course a few degrees to the west but starting from the same point near the southern tip of Ocean County. This was done in 1687, and the result appears on all maps of New Jersey showing county boundaries. This line separates Ocean and Monmouth from Burlington, then goes through Mercer where it is the dividing line between several townships, and finally splits Hunterdon from Somerset. Keith ended it at the south branch of the Raritan River, but it was later redirected somewhat easterly toward its eventual terminus at the New York line. My interest in this resulted from the recent story on attempts at locating mile stones delineating the Lawrence line, but I was quite surprised that there was no reference made to Keith's line. Incidentally, the Lawrence line actually wasn't laid out until 1743, and its main purpose affects deeds to private property.

There is an interesting section near the back of the book covering a complete listing of New Jersey Geological Survey Maps (Appendix C) and U.S. Geological Survey Maps of New Jersey (Appendix D). In the state series there are named sheets (1 thru 17), complete with dates of the various issues (1884 thru 1902); and also numbered sheets in a grid pattern (21 thru 37), with issues shown dated from 1903 to 1970. Both sets had a scale of 1 inch equals 1 mile. In addition, there is a very scattered set of 1:24000 named sheets, only 24 altogether, mostly in North Jersey and the Monmouth coastline, but a block of four in and near Camden. The listed U.S. topo sheets are the familar 7.5', 15' and 30' maps with which we are more familiar. Finally, Appendix A has a listing of all known state and county maps and atlases issued prior to 1910.

I was tempted to scan and post copies of some of the old maps from the Snyder book, but was reluctant to do so because of possible copyright issues. Incidentally, this man earlier authored another interesting book on the history of county and municipal boundaries, but I don't recall the title.
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
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Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
We have the state series sheets (1-17) in the map archive. They're the George Cook topo map series. Hopefully you've had a chance to browse through the map archive on this site.

Any publication older than 75 years falls into the Public Domain, so you're free to copy/scan/reprint it.
 
B

bach2yoga

Guest
bruset said:
Don't drink the water

Or eat from the street vendors, eat only cooked food or fruit that has to be peeled like bananas or oranges...eat yogurt daily for two weeks before you go to build up your intestinal flora.....:p

I'm not worried about it while we're at the hotel, it's a 5 star inclusive with bottled water. It's filtered, but I still don't trust it. You can always use beer or tequila to brush your teeth. 8) (Seriously, we're just taking the bottles to our room)

We're staying here:
(Click on the photo gallery for pics.)

http://www.conquestvacations.com/hotels/SSPA.html#

It's the days we venture off the hotel property I'm worried about. I've heard you can get Monteczuma's revenge by handling money and not washing your hands before you eat, so hand sanitizer and antibacterial wet naps will be my constant companions. I'm not one of those people who will stay on the hotel property the entire time just because there are a lot of things to do there. I like to experience the culture of the place too, and the people.

Renee
 
B

bach2yoga

Guest
I came, I saw, I bought.... :)
I found a copy on Abe for $60, but the rest were over 80 and up. I didn't see any on Amazon or alibris.

It sounds like an excellent book, thanks for the information!!

Does anyone know when the society line boundary markers would have been placed for the West Jersey proprieters? The large Pennsylvania stone type.

Renee


aserdaten said:
I have been noting the continual reference to the use of the most recent quad maps on explorations, with occasional reference to the older maps such as Cook's from the 1880's (I think). Now since I have been a map collector since childhood when you could get free road maps from gas stations, and apparently some others of you have admited to having similar interests now, I thought I might refer y'all to a book published in 1973 (but is currently out of print). It is called The Mapping of New Jersey - The Men and the Art by John P. Snyder, and published by Rutgers University Press. Using Google, I was referred to Amazon.com which showed a price of $20 new, but that was way incorrect. Further down on their site and on other similar sites there were offers of used copies for close to $100. Perhaps they can be obtained cheaper than that, and I'm sure some of you hip online shoppers would find that true. The book has descriptions and illustrations of probably close to 100 old maps, dating back into the 1600's.

My primary reason for digging this book out of its secretive hiding place was to verify what I knew to be true concerning the Lawrence line separating East and West Jersey back in Colonial times. Shortly (?) after that line was established, the surveyor general of East Jersey, George Keith, was commissioned to lay out the line, only in reality to establish a new course a few degrees to the west but starting from the same point near the southern tip of Ocean County. This was done in 1687, and the result appears on all maps of New Jersey showing county boundaries. This line separates Ocean and Monmouth from Burlington, then goes through Mercer where it is the dividing line between several townships, and finally splits Hunterdon from Somerset. Keith ended it at the south branch of the Raritan River, but it was later redirected somewhat easterly toward its eventual terminus at the New York line. My interest in this resulted from the recent story on attempts at locating mile stones delineating the Lawrence line, but I was quite surprised that there was no reference made to Keith's line. Incidentally, the Lawrence line actually wasn't laid out until 1743, and its main purpose affects deeds to private property.

There is an interesting section near the back of the book covering a complete listing of New Jersey Geological Survey Maps (Appendix C) and U.S. Geological Survey Maps of New Jersey (Appendix D). In the state series there are named sheets (1 thru 17), complete with dates of the various issues (1884 thru 1902); and also numbered sheets in a grid pattern (21 thru 37), with issues shown dated from 1903 to 1970. Both sets had a scale of 1 inch equals 1 mile. In addition, there is a very scattered set of 1:24000 named sheets, only 24 altogether, mostly in North Jersey and the Monmouth coastline, but a block of four in and near Camden. The listed U.S. topo sheets are the familar 7.5', 15' and 30' maps with which we are more familiar. Finally, Appendix A has a listing of all known state and county maps and atlases issued prior to 1910.

I was tempted to scan and post copies of some of the old maps from the Snyder book, but was reluctant to do so because of possible copyright issues. Incidentally, this man earlier authored another interesting book on the history of county and municipal boundaries, but I don't recall the title.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,653
8,264
I wrote that article so I will comment on it. First let me say that all of my information on that article came from the Lawrence Line Report. On the front of the report it states:

A report of the Lawrence Line Committee. A Historic Project supported by The Surveyor Generals of East and West Jersey and by the New Jersey Society of Professional Land Surveyors and its Chapter Members.

I would assume the historical info would be correct, since they used much of their own records for the report.

Incidentally, the Lawrence line actually wasn't laid out until 1743, and its main purpose affects deeds to private property

If you read the second line of my article you will notice it states that John Lawrence was hired in "1743" to "resurvey" the division line between the two provinces. The reason for the "resurvey" was that George Keith was first commissioned to do it, and failed to do it properly, and it was never accepted as the true division line between East and West Jersey. Disputes arouse because his line was off, and by 1743 it was determined it needed to be done again. As you mention Keith's work was not in vane, because his line was used to divided counties such as Ocean and Burlington. So the main purpose of the Lawrence line was to fix what Keith broke.


I was quite surprised that there was no reference made to Keith's line

I did not mention the Keith line because it was a report on the Lawrence line. I guess you could say I did mention it when I added the word "resurvey". The only location that the two lines meet are in the Ocean along the coast, so my exploration never at any moment crossed the path of the Keith line, and I felt mentioning it was not necessary.

If I had information of historic markers on the Keith line, I would have added it to the report, but as far as I personally have found, the markers on that line are more modern. I did find the one at the link below near Old Half Way that appears to be older, but I don't think it is as old as the stones in my report. I am puzzled on the letter "E" on the stone. I would assume it would be a "B."

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/~teegate/Burlington_OceanLine.JPG

And this past weekend Bob and I found this one but it is made of cement. Not much historical value there.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/~teegate/132004/IMG_2973.JPG

Thank you for reading my article and I appreciate the feedback.

Guy
 

aserdaten

Scout
Jul 26, 2003
63
0
Ormond Beach, Florida
TeeGate --

Unfortunately I did not re-read your Lawrence Line story prior to writing mine, and since I have a memory like a sieve, had actually forgotten those points which you brought up in your response at 17:24 this date. Got all of my information directly from Mr. Snyder's book, pages 24-26 I believe. Apparently the E/W boundary line was authorized in 1687, but it wasn't clear to me why it was laid out where it actually was, and since Lawrence came along in 1743 with the second (corrected, apparently) version, I actually didn't know what the reason was. But because the Keith version had already been in place some 56 years, it was the only visible (?) line that the counties could use to establish their borders, which I suppose did make sense. Thought many counties had been established earlier than 1687, so I don't know what (if anything specific) they used to establish boundaries.

Don't recall a mention of the Lawrence line being run as a correction of Keith's in the Snyder book, but then again I only re-read a small portion to get an idea of the dates involved. I actually had thought that the Lawrence line came along first! Bear with me on my "facts", since with age I am getting more and more forgetful, if that's possible. I retired from the NJ Dep't of Transportation 12 years ago, and it was in my earlier years there (50's & 60's) that I first got interested in that and many other things having some connection to mapping, one of my favorite hobbies. One of my earliest assignments when just out of college was plotting deeds in order to verify the accuracy of properties which were wholly or partially taken for building highways. Since ownership had to be verified for up to 60 years, and with some property in a single family's hands for several generations, I often found myself plotting huge properties dating back into the mid 1700's. That was when chains and links were used for measurement, and since a link was approximately eight inches long, you can understand why measurements lacked the accuracy that we now employ (the nearest hundredth of a foot). But I digress.

Surprised about your lack of older monuments being found on Keith line, since it was laid out so long before Lawrence. As for more modern markers, that's even stranger. But the concrete one you pictured with a metal point sticking up from the middle was probably much newer, placed at a time when more accurate measurements were required. It is probably a property corner, where measurements were required to the nearest hundredth of a foot. I would guess there is a similar one not too far away, but this of course could have been damaged or vandalized.

Hope you have the opportunity to acquire, or at least borrow, a copy of Snyder's book. Sure that you will find it both interesting and a fine reference source for older NJ maps. And please understand, I did not in any way attempt to discredit your story abouth the Lawrence line, I was just surprised that there was no direct mention of the other one, if only as a comparison or contrast.

-- Dave "aserdaten" Quaid, Ormond Beach, CFL
.

 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,653
8,264
Dave,

The marker in my photo with the characters on it is located at the below link. It is the boundary of Ocean/Burlington County and also Lacey/Manchester/Woodland Township.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4411790.00011515&e=548361.000000004&datum=nad83

The other photo is Ocean/Burlington County and Lacey/Union Township.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4408279.00011499&e=549893.000000004&datum=nad83


There may be old monuments along the Keith line, but I am not as fortunate with the Keith info as I was with the Lawrence info, to have the GPS coordinates of most of them given to me. I have yet to have that happen with the Keith Line, although I would surely welcome it. And even though the Keith line is older than the Lawrence line, we must keep in mind that neither of them placed markers when they surveyed. All of the markers came later by private land owners and governmental agencies.

Thanks for all of your info.

Guy
 

JIMBO

Scout
Mar 31, 2003
66
0
Nugentown NJ
I just got a copy of {The Mapping of New Jersey - The Men and the Art}
It’s a very interesting read thanks for the heads up.
 
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