Hi Folks, I've been doing some reading about the breeding population of green tree frogs in Salem County. I can't help but to wonder if there would be any consequence for pine barrens tree frogs if the range of green tree frogs expanded into the PBTF habitats? I think that, genetically, they are similar enough to hybridize, and I don't know what other types of competitive pressures that the green tree frog could potentially introduce if they did expand into habitat. Does anyone here have experience with this or have some thoughts on it?
PBTF and Green Tree Frog Range Overlap?
- Thread starter NJChileHead
- Start date
Both of their ranges overlap throughout the rest of their ranges in NC,SC,FL,AL and as far as I know they do not regularly hybridize. Both are fairly specific in habitat. On Delmarva Hyla cinerea seems to not stray very far from the coast from what I have heard and seem to prefer marshes, impoundments and large ponds. Hyla andersoni seem to prefer the acidic water of white cedar swamps/streams, or cedar water/peat bogs and ponds. My guess is that the impact would be basically non existent. You may see a hybrid here and there but nothing on a large scale. Probably more of a freak event than anything. Here is a hybrid photo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frogdr/5865138392/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frogdr/5865138392/
Hi Mark , One theory is The PBTF's ability to breed in the acidic core pines is an evolutionary adaption which gives it an advantage over other species ( which can not tolerate the acidity ). I don't believe the green tree frogs are native to the pines or even NJ .While Salem has great herp habitat , in general I would think its considered outside the "Core Pines "
Regards ,
Joe
Regards ,
Joe
Joe,
While not in the pinelands, native populations of Hyla cinerea have recently been found here. Here are a few links.
http://www.conservewildlifenj.org/b...-green-treefrog-found-in-southern-new-jersey/
http://www.sicb.org/meetings/2013/schedule/abstractdetails.php?id=269
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55972017@N03/8986391725/
While not in the pinelands, native populations of Hyla cinerea have recently been found here. Here are a few links.
http://www.conservewildlifenj.org/b...-green-treefrog-found-in-southern-new-jersey/
http://www.sicb.org/meetings/2013/schedule/abstractdetails.php?id=269
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55972017@N03/8986391725/
Interestingly the other day a friend made mention to a population of Barking tree frogs that were once found in Heislerville, Maurice River Township in Cumberland County. Not sure of the location but he said they are no longer there. Anyone have any info on this former population? I have read that there were a handful of small populations in S.NJ that were believed to be native but now extirpated, similar the the Delmarva populations.
There used to be a population of barkers in Cape May county.It was planted and from what I have heard did not last long and is now extirpated.I never heard of the one in Heislerville.If you swing a location at me I"m right across the river and I know their call,I"ll check but I doubt it.
I have the pdf file with the map and descriptions of all the Green Treefrog locales in Salem and western Cumberland county as of 2012 and they had not yet expanded into anything I would remotely consider Barrens habitat.There is some nice upland barrens type woods in the Alloway area but the frogs are more down toward the bay and as mentioned they are in farm ponds,reed jungles and slat marsh edges.I"m going to look for them within the week,soon as we get a warm night.
Chile head I had been wondering the same thing,if they would hybridize that is because as you say they are so similar I would suspect they could and I have found PBTF in old sand washes and would suspect the Greens might be able to make it there as well but we'll have to wait and see.PBTF's go "WONK" and Greens go "WANK" so whats a hybrid do? "WINK"? "WUNK"?
I have the pdf file with the map and descriptions of all the Green Treefrog locales in Salem and western Cumberland county as of 2012 and they had not yet expanded into anything I would remotely consider Barrens habitat.There is some nice upland barrens type woods in the Alloway area but the frogs are more down toward the bay and as mentioned they are in farm ponds,reed jungles and slat marsh edges.I"m going to look for them within the week,soon as we get a warm night.
Chile head I had been wondering the same thing,if they would hybridize that is because as you say they are so similar I would suspect they could and I have found PBTF in old sand washes and would suspect the Greens might be able to make it there as well but we'll have to wait and see.PBTF's go "WONK" and Greens go "WANK" so whats a hybrid do? "WINK"? "WUNK"?
Manumuskin, I didn't get an exact location but I grew up in Heislerville catching all kinds of herps and can say with 99% certainty that they are no longer there, if they ever were. They may have died out before my time. There are Pine Barrens Tree frogs scattered throughout the area but are fairly rare. Both Northern and even Copes/southern gray's can be common in some areas. Both breed in my pool and in the vernal ponds and gravel pits behind my house here in Dorchester. I have not heard that green tf's have been found in Cumberland co., interesting. Would love to check out the map but understand if not.
Hi John , Thanks , good info !
Joe
PS That Pine snake in your Avatar is stunning ! Have not found a large # of Pines , but that pink ( at least to me ) is unique !
Joe
PS That Pine snake in your Avatar is stunning ! Have not found a large # of Pines , but that pink ( at least to me ) is unique !
Hey Folks,
Thank you for the info and insight! You guys really know your stuff and I am learning a lot from these discussions!!
Al, regarding the calls, I read in an abstract that either H. cinerea or H. andersonii will respond more favorably to the call of a hybrid than its own species. Don't remember which one.
Regarding the cinerea's range in NJ, in the comments section of the conservewildlife article, someone notes that he regularly sees green tree frogs in his backyard in Medford. Not sure how valid that is, but he discriminates between it and the PBTF in the comment. Too bad he didn't follow up on it.
Also, regarding the cinerea's range moving into PBTF habitat-are there PBTF's in Parvin State Park? I understand if that is too sensitive to answer here because of their conservation status.
Mark
Thank you for the info and insight! You guys really know your stuff and I am learning a lot from these discussions!!
Al, regarding the calls, I read in an abstract that either H. cinerea or H. andersonii will respond more favorably to the call of a hybrid than its own species. Don't remember which one.
Regarding the cinerea's range in NJ, in the comments section of the conservewildlife article, someone notes that he regularly sees green tree frogs in his backyard in Medford. Not sure how valid that is, but he discriminates between it and the PBTF in the comment. Too bad he didn't follow up on it.
Also, regarding the cinerea's range moving into PBTF habitat-are there PBTF's in Parvin State Park? I understand if that is too sensitive to answer here because of their conservation status.
Mark