Pinelands to Pine waist

[NJSnakeMan]

It is sad to what is happening to the Pine Barrens these days... i just went out today herping and i could not beleive my eyes. There was trash everywhere, froms tires to milk cartons, a broken car, towels, paper, plastic, cans, beer bottles etc. It is amazing what little things people do that can effect the enviornment so dramatically, i don't know about everyone else here but i think... or no, i know something should be done about this, if this goes on, in some years the NJ Pine Barrens will just be a memory.

Brandon

 

[kingofthepines]

How long did it take to clean all that junk up??

 

[NJSnakeMan]

We didn't clean it up, it would take a nice good day to pick up the trash, and the cars we can't carry out. Only things i would leave is a couple tins and boards for snakes and toads to hide under. And i wanted to point out i spelled waste wrong, sorry.

Brandon

 

[jokerman]

The worst area I have been at so far was south of mary Ann Forge, near the truly lost area of Lower Mill, it is inundated with dumping from nearby ignorance. At the same time it shows the natural state of this area and of course the reason why Control is unfortunately necessary. Incredible that the forests aren't lit up on fire every weekend. I long for a REAL government run by an intelligent power, who would be able to make direct decisions for the best of all persons.

 

[jokerman]

BTW, any person who is pro George W. Bush, is either VERY rich (and has no other care in the world besides that an extra 1,000 bucks in their pocket is worth the health and sustainability of this planet) OR IS HELPLESSLY IGNORANT, please rethink your position. The Bush Cabinet is exactly the type of power that will FIND A WAY to make the Pine Barrens developable. There is no argument to this. If ANYONE is stille pro-bush please go to the National Resource Defense Counil's web page at:

www.nrdc.org (This org has done more for evironment than any other i know)

This Cabinet of jerks is really doing a horrible thing to our world. And btw, if you are worried about terrorism, get ready for it because while GWB's friend's just got richER at the pure expense of our national reputation, our threat of it has recently become ten-fold. THEY DON"T CARE, EITHER. They will be out of harms way when the s**t hits the fan. This IS the most evil empire we have ever seen! The Clean Water Act and The CLean Air Acts are being gutted and right now they know they are going to lose the election and are doing everything possible to unempower these two (2) crucial pieces of legislation that have made our quality of living just about at the bearable level. If you feel you disagree, PLEASE start paying attention and REALIZE the stakes at hand for this election. I REALLY find it hard to believe that GWB would receive one (1) person's vote, espescially from a person this web page. There are a few VERY rich people who have benefitted from his presidency. During the last President's tenure, I was able to go to school via loans. The same oppurtunities are no onger available, jobs HAVE been lost, our sense of security has been lost, the economy is f'd up, and we now have the responsibity to financially rebuild Iraq! Holy s**t, and now they hate us. It has been a log time since we have been so screwed and the Bush's are laughing all the way to the bank...at our expense. Check it out, it's no bullshit.

 

[NJSnakeMan]

well said and agreed, couldn't of said it any better.

brandon

 

[BEHR655]

I don't think political debate belongs on this forum. However, you opened the door so here are a couple of my thoughts.

BTW, any person who is pro George W. Bush, is either VERY rich (and has no other care in the world besides that an extra 1,000 bucks in their pocket is worth the health and sustainability of this planet) OR IS HELPLESSLY IGNORANT, please rethink your position.

I'm not very rich, not even close, but I'd like to be. Wouldn't you? I get my money from people that have so much money they don't know what to do with it. It's possible you do too. Bill Clinton, in his speach the other night, talked about how he benifited from the tax break the wealthy got. Said it was wrong. Do you suppose he declined that tax benifit? No, he didn't because he would not have gotten it unless he claimed it. Bill wants to be rich to. I don't know if if you have kids but it was George that sent me that nice check last year. Don't get me wrong here, I think the tax system needs to be fixed. Kerry says he will do it. So has every candidate right on done the line, Democrat and Republican, but it never gets done.

This Cabinet of jerks is really doing a horrible thing to our world. And btw, if you are worried about terrorism, get ready for it because while GWB's friend's just got richER at the pure expense of our national reputation, our threat of it has recently become ten-fold. THEY DON"T CARE, EITHER. They will be out of harms way when the s**t hits the fan. This IS the most evil empire we have ever seen!

I'm not going to argue this comment. Not because I agree with it but because I don't think it merits an argument.

During the last President's tenure, I was able to go to school via loans. The same oppurtunities are no onger available.......

Hmmmmmm........my girls get loan offers just about every other day.

jobs HAVE been lost

The job market has and will always fluctuate. This is not a Republican or Democrat thing. Don't believe for a second that out-sourcing was brought on by the Bush admistration. Labor costs are too high here. Labor costs are controled by unions. Unions are bedfellows of the Democrats.

our sense of security has been lost

Just how was that brought on by this administration?

the economy is f'd up

It is???

Holy s**t, and now they hate us

Name one country or group that hates us now that didn't hate us before Bush was elected.



Throughout your post you aluded to the fact (and yes it is a fact) that the Bush administration panders to thier big business supporters. If you believe that Kerry will not do the same thing then you are surely wrong. It is the way politics has worked from the begining and it is the way it will work until the end.

I voted for Bush before and I plan on voting for him again. It astounds me that so many people I talk to are voting against Bush, not for Kerry. I see it kind of like "Let's Make a Deal", you've got the refrigerator behind door #2 but you're willing trade it for the unknown behind door #3. Careful, you may get a donkey!

 

[Piney1125]

Bush

I am not going to add fuel to the fire, but I just want to say that I disagree with you, jokerman.

 

[kingofthepines]

Jokerman, that was quite a hysterical rant. Thanks for the chuckle. An ignorant voter is a liberals best friend.

 

[bobpbx]

I'm still with you on this one Jokerman. Bush took his eye off the target because he had a passion to nail Sadaam. We had Sadaam bottled up tight like a fly. We even had no fly zones in his own country! We should have kept up the inspections. Think he would have done anything while they went on? I don't think so, and if he did, we would have every right to nail him and all the world would have been on our side.

Now, 900 good young americans dead and thousands wounded. For what? To keep that SOB in jail waiting trial? They should have shot him in his spidey hole and claimed he went for his gun. Then we should have left Iraq to their own devices. Does anyone realize we are fighting a civil war over there for them? Can they not fight that themselves now? If they value freedom so much as Bush says they will. The count is 25 million Iraqui's to how many thousands of insurgents....10 thousand?

I don't love Kerry, but I dont' hate him. I am voting against Bush more than I'm voting for Kerry.

 

[jokerman]

Jokerman, that was quite a hysterical rant. Thanks for the chuckle. An ignorant voter is a liberals best friend.

Yes, it was somewhat of a rant, and I am in no way ashamed how I feel, nor do I care at all about your smug remark. I'm no liberal. I think we should cut way down on immigration and find the enemies at home.

I don't know if if you have kids but it was George that sent me that nice check last year. Don't get me wrong here, I think the tax system needs to be fixed. Kerry says he will do it. So has every candidate right on done the line, Democrat and Republican, but it never gets done.

It is a FACT that pregnant women, and hence newborns, have shown an increase in blood mercury levels since the pollution emission standards were increased by Bush and Cheney. They are even trying to declassify mercury as a hazardous substance not to be regulated as such, even though mercury is undoubtably one of the most harmful pollutants we know of and gets into everyone's system regadless of where you live due to air pollution. New Jersey has recently (thanks to the Bush admin) been documented as having the WORST air quality in the nation. Gee, thanks Cheney and Bush! I don't care, there is NOTHING more important in life than our health,especialy our children's. This administration, for some reason, has made it their top priority to make sure we have as unhealthy an environment as possible. They talk about "no children being left behind" but are pretty much making sure that kids will be born with more birth defects and die early from disease. If that's worth a couple of hundred bucks to you, then please vote him back in.

 

[kingofthepines]

Jokerman, that was quite a hysterical rant. Thanks for the chuckle. An ignorant voter is a liberals best friend.

Yes, it was somewhat of a rant, and I am in no way ashamed how I feel, nor do I care at all about your smug remark. I'm no liberal. I think we should cut way down on immigration and find the enemies at home.

I don't know if if you have kids but it was George that sent me that nice check last year. Don't get me wrong here, I think the tax system needs to be fixed. Kerry says he will do it. So has every candidate right on done the line, Democrat and Republican, but it never gets done.

It is a FACT that pregnant women, and hence newborns, have shown an increase in blood mercury levels since the pollution emission standards were increased by Bush and Cheney. They are even trying to declassify mercury as a hazardous substance not to be regulated as such, even though mercury is undoubtably one of the most harmful pollutants we know of and gets into everyone's system regadless of where you live due to air pollution. New Jersey has recently (thanks to the Bush admin) been documented as having the WORST air quality in the nation. Gee, thanks Cheney and Bush! I don't care, there is NOTHING more important in life than our health,especialy our children's. This administration, for some reason, has made it their top priority to make sure we have as unhealthy an environment as possible. They talk about "no children being left behind" but are pretty much making sure that kids will be born with more birth defects and die early from disease. If that's worth a couple of hundred bucks to you, then please vote him back in.

Your "facts" may or may not be accurate. I culled this info from the EPA website. http://www.epa.gov/mercury/hg_factsheet1_29_04.pdf Where can I read more information about your claims?

 

[Lorun]

My rant,

Go online, look up partial birth abortion. Look at pictures of how the procedure is completed. How can anyone claim to believe that life starts at conception and than vote to keep that legal? Kerry is a sick pup.
Kerry voted for and supported the war based on the same info as Bush. When confronted about this, he claimed to not have read the reports. How can Kerry at the convention say he would never lead the country into war without good reason, when he has already voted for a war and did not bother to read the reports documenting why?

If Kerry supports stabbing an unborn child in the back of the head, that otherwise would have no problem living outside the womb, how much respect could he have for anylife.

I do not hold anyones politcal beliefs against them, but Kerry is cold calculating SOB.

 

[Teegate]

This seems like it may get out of hand, so please think of others opinions and feelings before you post. You NEVER win when you argue on the web. You just don't....


Guy

 

[jokerman]

Where can I read more information about your claims?

Here's some documentation on the mercury topic we were discussing. The EPA has "proposed" many things...

http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/040227.asp

The problem starts with the Bush Cabinet as they put their influence on the EPA. Then they scare them with threat of budget cuts that "encourage" the EPA to do their bidding. I noticed recently after McGrievey went through that scam about possibly dealing with corruption that he gave in to some bad piece of legislation that enables developers to move ahead with projects without having to through particular check points which serve to minimize reckless destruction by overdevelopment. I think he was pushed into a corner by the thugs who wrapped that rap about corruption around his neck. I met him in the winter at a siten and thanked him for he has been doing to stop the urban sprawl prolem. He is braver than most.

The people who were appointed by Bush to run our environmental agencies are all people with the worst backgrounds in regards to environmental responsibility. When scientific reports are provided to help make decisions w/ the environment, Cheney/Bush have the tests redone by people who will get them the results they want. What a nightmare!! One report was biased to say that wetlands serve to increase pollution in areas they exist. I have seen some bad stuff from all politicians before, but what is going on now is really scary, incredible misuse of authority for the profit of a few. Total loss of reason and responsibility to us.

 

[jokerman]

Kingofthepines:
That's a very becoming photo of yourself. You ever call me ignorant again, I'll pull a Burt Reynolds on ya'll.

 

[kingofthepines]

I take it then, since Bush took office, that everyone in the country, not just pregnant women, now have higher levels of mercury in their systems due to lax controls on air pollution? Natural global emissions of mercury to the environment are equal to or, perhaps, greater than man made emissions. The global man made emission rate for mercury is estimated to be 649.7 millions of grams a year (I forgot where I read that) and the global natural emission rate is estimated to be 1,018.5 millions of grams a year. Although these estimates are highly uncertain, it appears that natural emissions account for about 50% of the total. Thus, even if man made emissions of mercury were eliminated, there would likely still be significant natural sources of mercury to the environment. Simply because the government has failed to warn people that if they eat more than 12 ounces of fish from several different species in a weeks time doesn't equal a conspiracy by the Bush admin. I remember when the war cry was "Bush allows Arsenic in drinking water" You would have to drink like 400 gallons a day for 10,000 years to get sick.

By the By you didn't have to threaten me to get the admin to lock the thread and bail you out.

 

[RednekF350]

I always look at things stripped down to their most basic elements.
I learned early on that the basic Republican credo is minimize government's involvement in the lives of the people and minimize the "programs" within the government that support those who can't seem or don't want to to support themselves.
Democrat phiosophy holds that since we are the most prosperous country in the world, we need to find new and interesting ways to whack the working people for more dollars and then hand over those dollars over to those who would rather not participae in the workaday world.
Basic, but it works for me.

 

[BarryC]

Jokerman,
It's funny how you take an innocent topic such as the trashing of the Pines (which would go on whether Bush was in office or not) and turn it into a Bush bash-fest. Is this a Pine Barrens forum, or a Bush-bashing, political forum? You've done this before. A nice topic turns into a big political rant.
People are trashing the Pines all over. It's because a lot of people have no interest in the Pines or in the environment, and will do whatever they want, as long as they don't get caught. Right near here, in the far eastern edge of the Makepeace Lake Wildlife Management Area I have seen truckloads of construction debris and other things, dumped in the Pines. Some of it has been there for months or years. It's a shame, but who can stop it? Bad people will continue to be bad no matter what.
So do you think of Bush were out of office that all of this would stop?
By the way, I am pro-Bush, but not rich at all and not "hopelessly ignorant".
Thanks.

 

[Teegate]

As Barry so perfectly says, trashing of the pines will continue no matter who is in office, but I know something that will end on this thread.

Guy