Poor Garmin support experience

[46er]

Attempted to register my Oregon 450 with Garmin so I could subscribe to their BirdsEye product. Could not do it, their Communicator software never could make contact with my computer. Back and forth with Garmin for 3 days, in the end they suggested my switching to Firefox, which was rediculous. Asked it there was another way to register, and there is not. I finally used an old laptop to do the registration and the BirdsEye loads fine on the system with the registration problem. They get an A for effort and an F for results. Still have no idea where the problem is, except it is something within their Communicator software. Just thought I'd pass this along.

 

[Boyd]

I have seen various bug reports about communicator in the past, but not so many recently. It's not really that unusual to run into a website that doesn't work with certain browsers. Not trying to make excuses for Garmin, but if something as simple as using FireFox would solve the problem, why wouldn't you just do that?

I use FireFox on my PC's and Safari on my Mac. Are you using Internet Explorer? Whatever the issue was, I suspect it was related to your computer because otherwise we'd see lots of reports where people couldn't register their products. I have registered a number of Garmin products with no issue using both a Mac and a PC.

 

[46er]

I have seen various bug reports about communicator in the past, but not so many recently. It's not really that unusual to run into a website that doesn't work with certain browsers. Not trying to make excuses for Garmin, but if something as simple as using FireFox would solve the problem, why wouldn't you just do that?

I use FireFox on my PC's and Safari on my Mac. Are you using Internet Explorer? Whatever the issue was, I suspect it was related to your computer because otherwise we'd see lots of reports where people couldn't register their products. I have registered a number of Garmin products with no issue using both a Mac and a PC.

I try not to install software that I won't be using and installing something to accomplish one thing just makes no sense to me. I agree it is something with my system as it worked on my older laptop. On both the laptop and this desktop I use IE, never any issues. I suggested to Garmin they might consider an alternative method of registration for folks that have problems, not everyone has 2 systems to work with, maybe something as simple as a phone call or an email. Its really such a simple thing.

 

[Teegate]

I find it very hard to do all that I want to do without running two or more browsers. Whenever I have a problem I switch to a different one and usually things go well.

Guy

 

[46er]

I find it very hard to do all that I want to do without running two or more browsers. Whenever I have a problem I switch to a different one and usually things go well.

Guy

I guess I'm fortunate, this is the first issue I've had that could not be resolved in a quick manner. After 37+ years in software support I learned the KISS approach usually works best and make a habit of having only software I need on a regular basis on my system. I eventually did resolve this myself by reviewing some Garmin forums. Very simple solution actually, very surprised the Garmin tech did not suggest it.

As an aside; while debugging this I tried to register a product with no serial # option just to see if it would work. I just selected a device from the dropdown, I do not own it, and it did register. I subsequently received the official confirmation email with the 10% discount code attached

 

[Teegate]

The hard part is over.....you now have to deal with the BirdsEye downloads. If you use the highest quality you will be spending quite a bit of time getting your maps.

Guy

 

[46er]

Yep, I expected that from reading some of your earlier posts and that Garmin deliberately throttles back the download process. I've looked for some details on how that download takes place but can find very little on it. Would you know if the birdseye first gets loaded to the computer and then to the garmin device, or does the download go directly to the device? BaseCamp appears to require a 'supported device' be attached to the computer before it will start birdseye. The video from Garmin isn't very clear about it.

 

[Teegate]

Your GPS must be attached at all times for BaseCamp to allow the download. It only downloads the maps to Basecamp and then you put it in your GPS. On my Mac all I do after it downloads to BaseCamp is right click on the new file in BaseCamp and choose "Send to GPS." That takes less time to send but basically for each area you download you have two separate transmissions to do. It is very very very time consuming at highest quality. They need to allow larger downloads.

And whatever you do, I would recommend that after you get them into your GPS, you back them up on an external drive. Garmin claims they never expire but if you loose them you have wasted a good portion of your life, and just as importantly, your hard downloaded maps.

I suspect the support device you are referring to is the GPS. Make sure it is connected.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

Here is what I now have in highest quality.

 

[Boyd]

Yes, of course it is loaded onto your computer first and then you can transfer to your device. And I'm sure they are controlling the throughput. Remember, they are giving you unlimited imagery for $30 so what do you expect? What other Garmin products can you buy for $30? If you buy City Navigator you get 1.4GB of data for $100, US Topo 100k gives you about 3GB of data for $100. I have already downloaded 16GB of BirdsEye and am only halfway through my first year.

Since I've already filled my storage card, I haven't done any downloads for a few months. The older versions of Basecamp had a lot of issues and bogged down to the point of being unusable as you added more BirdsEye. The new version has been completely updated and evidently doesn't have this issue. I had deleted all my imagery and archived it in a folder to address the performance issues awhile ago, so I don't know how well it performs now. But user feedback seems pretty good these days.

The old version stored all the downloaded tiles in cache files, creating literally hundreds of thousands of little files and evidently that was the problem. The actual .jnx files for the GPS were not created until you transferred them to the GPS. The new system creates the .jnx files as you download, eliminating all those little cache files.

You don't need to connect your GPS to download. Instead, use your SD card in a USB reader, or use a USB flash drive. Now connect your Oregon to the computer and find the file named GarminDevice.xml and copy it to the flash drive. You may need to create a \Garmin folder and put it in there - can't remember offhand - but it should be in the same place on the flash drive as you found it on the Oregon.

Basecamp will now think your flash drive *is* an Oregon and you can download all the BirdsEye you want without the need to connect the GPS itself.

 

[Boyd]

Nice, Guy. I have all that and also a good chunk of upstate New Jersey. Yes, it does take a long time but you can just let it run while you sleep or while you're at work. Use the trick I described with a flash drive and you won't need to keep the GPS connected and powered up all the time.

Note that the key is that you need to use something your computer considers as "removable media" and not an external hard drive. Also, if you have a Nuvi with City Navigator and want to use that map on your computer, you can copy the Nuvi's map file (gmapprom.img) to a \Garmin folder on the flash drive and Basecamp will also read that and let you use it.

 

[46er]

Yes, of course it is loaded onto your computer first and then you can transfer to your device. And I'm sure they are controlling the throughput. Remember, they are giving you unlimited imagery for $30 so what do you expect? What other Garmin products can you buy for $30? If you buy City Navigator you get 1.4GB of data for $100, US Topo 100k gives you about 3GB of data for $100. I have already downloaded 16GB of BirdsEye and am only halfway through my first year.

Since I've already filled my storage card, I haven't done any downloads for a few months. The older versions of Basecamp had a lot of issues and bogged down to the point of being unusable as you added more BirdsEye. The new version has been completely updated and evidently doesn't have this issue. I had deleted all my imagery and archived it in a folder to address the performance issues awhile ago, so I don't know how well it performs now. But user feedback seems pretty good these days.

The old version stored all the downloaded tiles in cache files, creating literally hundreds of thousands of little files and evidently that was the problem. The actual .jnx files for the GPS were not created until you transferred them to the GPS. The new system creates the .jnx files as you download, eliminating all those little cache files.

You don't need to connect your GPS to download. Instead, use your SD card in a USB reader, or use a USB flash drive. Now connect your Oregon to the computer and find the file named GarminDevice.xml and copy it to the flash drive. You may need to create a \Garmin folder and put it in there - can't remember offhand - but it should be in the same place on the flash drive as you found it on the Oregon.

Basecamp will now think your flash drive *is* an Oregon and you can download all the BirdsEye you want without the need to connect the GPS itself.

Thanks Boyd. I get the impression you think I am complaining about the product; I am not, just trying to understand the flow and how it works. The price of Birdseye is a great buy. I thought the reasoning behind having the GPS connected was to verify licensing, but if you can download to a memory device thats apparently not the case. You say that the birdseye loads first to the computer, if so that should eliminate the necessity to backup as Tee suggests?

Headed out to Whitesbog, will play around with it this evening when its snowing

 

[Boyd]

I have not loaded any imagery since basecamp changed its storage method. In the past, the .jnx files that are used on your gps were not found anywhere on your computer, just all those cache files. This made it necessary to backup the .jnx files from the GPS or memory card. My understanding is that you will now find all the .jnx files in a folder somewhere on your computer. You could read the Basecamp forum on Garmin's site for more info, it's been discussed there. Of course, backups on another device are always a good idea anyway though.

There is no license requirement for using BirdsEye on your computer, but Garmin won't let you access it unless you have a compatible GPS. The way they determine this is by the contents of the GarminDevice.xml file which describes your model and its capabilities. So copying that file to another removable device is all you need to do.

Using the imagery on your GPS is another matter. It must be unlocked on your computer first and Basecamp will connect to Garmin's servers to verify your subscription and check it against the unit you're trying to install it on. If you haven't purchased, it will allow you to send a little 1 mile x 1 mile section of the middle of the image to your unit as a teaser.

I believe they also made a change awhile ago, and if you don't have a subscription you can't download as much imagery in a single session as you could with the subscription. Not completely sure about that however.

 

[Boyd]

Here you go (Windows): https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=15469

And on the Mac: https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=15628

 

[Teegate]

And on the Mac: https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=15628

Boyd,

Unfortunately, that is not the proper path in my computer. In mine it is:

Users/Library/ApplicationSupport/Garmin/BaseCamp/JnxFiles

However, the jnx files in the jnx folder are all generic with completely different names on them. To be honest, after seeing them I still believe the best way to save them is directly from the GPS. Once they are in the GPS and working, I back them up and have on numerious occations removed them and replaced them.

The map folder only has custom maps in it such as yours.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

Thanks Guy. Like I said, I haven't downloaded anything since they changed the software. I also have backups of all the .jnx files that I copied directly from my memory card. Now that I have the newest version of BaseCamp on both my Mac and PC, will have to give it a try again.

BTW, there is one cool difference between the Mac and PC version. On the Mac, I can view any map in 3d. On the PC, this only works with real Garmin maps that have 3d terrain data, like US Topo and the 24k topo's.

But the Mac version still has sort of a "beta" feeling in other ways. For example, there isn't even a way to select what font and size to use for labels. That can make the map a mess as you zoom out. The PC version lets you choose these as well as a slider to choose between more > less labels and another menu to choose which kind of features to display. On the mac, all you can do is hide all the lines, giving you a blank map.

Those settings on the PC version seem to be a direct result of requests from users in Garmin's forum. Mac users should advocate for the same kinds of controls there. I think I'll continue to stick with Windows for all my mapping though, the experience is just better. I use the Mac for everything else.

 

[46er]

Did the first download last night for BirdsEye stuff; an area encompassing Dbl Trbl SP, Jakes Branch CP and some conservation land off Dover Rd. The time it took was fine for me and everything worked Personally I think its a pretty nice interface. I won't be downloading massive areas, just those that I will be visiting or have some interest in and those areas will be put on the memory card. Thanks to Boyd and Tee for the help.

 

[Teegate]

Did the first download last night for BirdsEye stuff; an area encompassing Dbl Trbl SP, Jakes Branch CP and some conservation land off Dover Rd. The time it took was fine for me and everything worked Personally I think its a pretty nice interface. I won't be downloading massive areas, just those that I will be visiting or have some interest in and those areas will be put on the memory card. Thanks to Boyd and Tee for the help.

If all you want is small area's the program works well and at a reasonable speed. I don't want to discourage anyone from purchasing it. It is well worth the money as is the GPS.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

BaseCamp still feels like beta software in many ways (on both Windows and Mac). As I said before, I think the Windows version is a bit more complete, and Garmin's Windows software usually leads the Mac. But it wasn't very many years ago when no GPS companies offered Mac versions of their software. Garmin is leading the pack with Mac support today - Magellan and DeLorme still have none.

I would like faster downloads and software that was a little more polished too - who wouldn't? But all things considered, BirdsEye is a great deal. Even if you want to download large areas (like Guy and me), it's not all that hard. You just make a point to start downloads when you're headed out of the house for work, or going to bed. They will be there when you get back. You can also queue up multiple downloads, and the second one will automatically start when the first one completes.

Garmin used to let you download larger areas in one session, then they restricted the file size and everybody stated complaining on their own forum. Personally, I never thought it made much difference. With the big downloads, they would often freeze halfway through and you'd need to start over from scratch. Downloading the smaller files usually didn't have this problem.

BTW, we are lucky that Garmin's using the NJ 2007 imagery here, since the quality is excellent. In other areas they use Digital Globe Satellite imagery (the NJ imagery was taken from airplanes). Many people are very upset by the low quality of the Digital Globe imagery, but I think it probably varies a lot by location.

Enjoy the Oregon and the aerial views.

 

[Teegate]

You can also queue up multiple downloads, and the second one will automatically start when the first one completes.

Are you sure that is available on Mac? I don't have that feature. If I did I would have been able to do them at night and save myself a ton of time. If Windows has it I can just boot into BootCamp and do it faster.


Guy