possible illegal pine catching

[snakehunter7]

remember the post when i asked if you could buy captive bred snake native to jersey, well i wanted to get a captive bred pine and kingsnake, and i found this, (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36307) by the way this buy was talkin i think he might have caught these snakes from the pines, what do you guys think

 

[swwit]

remember the post when i asked if you could buy captive bred snake native to jersey, well i wanted to get a captive bred pine and kingsnake, and i found this, (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36307) by the way this buy was talkin i think he might have caught these snakes from the pines, what do you guys think

I think he was talking about his bad luck in breeding them this year. He doesn't say he caught the snakes in question. Plus they are both babies and nice ones at that. Contact the state and ask them what the procedure would be in order for you to buy them. I know it's possible with documentation such as a receipt. Good luck.

 

[bobpbx]

Hmmm, he's from North Dakota. Perhaps he is doing some legal catching in that state? I do think he is talking about taking them from the wild.

 

[daved]

I Take It As He Is A Breeder. He Says That Pines Need To Be Kept Colder During Hibernation Than Corns Do And He Said His Timing Was Off. So I Take It He Artificially Hibernates His Snakes And He Didnt Hibernate Them Cold Enough And He Introduced The Males To The Females Too Late Thus Producing A Lot Of Infertile Eggs. The Two Snakes He Will Be Selling Are The Only Two That Hatched Out Of All The Eggs He Had. Thats The Way I Understand It.

 

[snakehunter7]

if i contact the state and they give the okay, i want to breed them, and if im successful maybe i can help restore the population a little bit, thats my main objective, it would probably be a good idea to contact someone from fish and game when releasing them, and taking them to the vet to make sure they have no parasites, i dont even want to sell them or anything, it seems much better to hatch them and release them rather than sell them to make a profit, wish me luck

thanks

 

[Teegate]

if i contact the state and they give the okay, i want to breed them, and if im successful maybe i can help restore the population a little bit, thats my main objective, it would probably be a good idea to contact someone from fish and game when releasing them, and taking them to the vet to make sure they have no parasites, i dont even want to sell them or anything, it seems much better to hatch them and release them rather than sell them to make a profit, wish me luck

thanks

It sounds like a good idea, but I am skeptical of you mentioning it to the state. I can see them taking it the wrong way and thinking there is something sinister going on. Anyone else feel that way or am I paranoid?

Guy

 

[swwit]

if i contact the state and they give the okay, i want to breed them, and if im successful maybe i can help restore the population a little bit, thats my main objective, it would probably be a good idea to contact someone from fish and game when releasing them, and taking them to the vet to make sure they have no parasites, i dont even want to sell them or anything, it seems much better to hatch them and release them rather than sell them to make a profit, wish me luck

thanks

Bad idea. The state is strict about releasing anything into the wild. Plus you can do more harm than good by doing so because once some snakes are in captivity for a while they can transfer pathogens and such into the wild populations. Nice thought but don't do it. Just my opinion.

 

[dragoncjo]

Releasing captives back into the wild is NEVER a good idea. Here is a thread from kingsnake.com, explaining some jersey regs on breeding reptiles,
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1109450,1109450. I can assure you that releasing them into the wild is not an option. New jersey treats reptile owners as criminals and getting permits is impossible let alone for threatened species. Breeding them and releasing them into the wild provides a number of problems such as introducing disease, poor genetic quality, and different variations mixing with native ones. My advice to you is pursue a career in biology and down the road this may be a possibility. However, new jersey is not going to allow the average collector to release his stock into the wild, and rightly so. Your idea is admirable and I think many collectors would be willing to release some offspring into the wild if it meant healthy snake pops. However it is an idea best executed by professionals, with doctorates and the ability to monitor how it effects wild pops. I would call the state and see what they say but PLEASE never release captives into the wild, that is a big no no. Good luck

Also Bob(bobbleton) you may recognize the guy on kingsnake he is your friend from double trouble and allaire.

 

[bobpbx]

I Take It As He Is A Breeder. He Says That Pines Need To Be Kept Colder During Hibernation Than Corns Do And He Said His Timing Was Off. So I Take It He Artificially Hibernates His Snakes And He Didnt Hibernate Them Cold Enough And He Introduced The Males To The Females Too Late Thus Producing A Lot Of Infertile Eggs. The Two Snakes He Will Be Selling Are The Only Two That Hatched Out Of All The Eggs He Had. Thats The Way I Understand It.

Okay, yeah. Now I get it. Good perception.

 

[woodjin]

Not to jump on the band wagon but echoing the concerns that others already stated about not releasing captive bred snakes into the wild. Great intentions, but ultimately a bad deal. Nature does best when left alone, a good fact to keep handy.

Jeff

 

[snakehunter7]

this is why i ask these things just to be on the safe side, now i understand why its a bad idea, i just though that new born hatchlings wouldnt have anything wrong with them, dont worry i wont ever release animals into the wild now that i know about that, so how do the biologist help rehabilitate species if most of the time it hurts the population, are there any projects like that for the pine snakes

 

[dragoncjo]

I don't know if they have any programs like that going on. Normally they begin programs like that when the population is really endangered and bringing wild caught adults in to captivity is the best possibility of the population increasing. I know down the shore they headstart terrapins at the wetlands institute. As far as anything beyond that I'm not sure if new jersey has anything like that. I know of two guys who breed spotted turtles and are participating in programs in ohio. As far as pine snakes there is probably a good amount of them in new jersey the reason, I think, for their protection status is that their habitat is endangered, similar to the pb treefrog. Where their habitat exist they aren't common but certainly aren't rare. I don't think their being more offspring being introduce or produce naturally in the wild would really help them all that much. It is more of a function of preserving their habitat and cutting back on illegal poaching. As long as the habitat is there the snakes should be. In the case of say bog turtles an animal who's population is aging and being fragmented from eachother a program of releasing them into the wild would be beneficial. The reason being is that say you have three pairs left in a bog that use to connect to other populations. That fragmented pop is going to have a real tough time sustaining itself because with only three pairs producing eggs odds are none of those will make it to adulthood. What i wish new jersey would do is collect roadkill turtles especially in the spring while they have eggs and remove the eggs and release them when they hatch.

 

[snakehunter7]

then you would probably appreciate what my dad did, we were driving and we saw a garter on the road, we went to move it off and it was dead, sadly it was pregnant, most of the young died, but my dad is a nurse so he cut open the dead snake and saved the baby, we put it near where we found the mother