Red Oak Grove and Howardsville 5-26-08

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
73
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
Ok, on to Red Oak Grove and Howardsville. My visits to both yielded much less dramatic finds than at Union Clay, although there was evidence of historical activity in each location.

My main interest at Red Oak Grove was to search the site thoroughly for any structural remains, cellar holes, and particularly the remains of a cemetary that Beck alluded to in his famously precise way as being "out across the road."

I covered perhaps 60% of the ground at the site, and probably 80+% of the portion to the west of Clay Mine Rd. I did not find a cemetary or anything that hinted of one. The first thing I saw on entering the site was this cellar hole.





I can't help but think that the digging was done by amateurs, perhaps relic hunters. On the side of the cellar nearest the road a trench was cut into the bank.



I would think that trench is at least ten years old, and might be coincident with the excavation of the cellar hole. There is a great deal of brick and some sandstone scattered around the area.





Not far from the trench there is another cut in the bank by the road, somewhat shallower, and in that are the remains of a roll-up garage door. Whether there was a garage at this location, or the door was dumped there, I don't know. It is close to the cellar hole shown above.





And that's the sum total of everything I saw at Red Oak Grove... well there was one small section of metal fence, of the flexible wire kind that you would place around a garden. Off to Howardsville.

I had wondered about Howardsville for nearly a year. Thanks to Ben's making the 1930 aerials available I was able to pinpoint where it used to be, and so I went back to give it a good going over. Here is the road that runs north from what used to be Cook's Rd., paralleling the old, dried up part of the bog. There were structures along this road, and you can see plenty of brick scattered in the foreground of this shot.



There is a magnificent, gnarled old oak in the middle of the south meadow, that I think is probably a domesticated tree, or at least one that was preserved domestically. It's just a great, photogenic old plant.





There was also some terra cotta pipe here very similar to what is found on the Union Clay site, which I guess shouldn't be surprising.



This old telephone pole shows signs of fire, and was fitted for mounts for three conductors, so I guess there was something here at least through the age of electrification.



The whole site has a plowed-under look to it, with debris scattered everywhere. This wire is sticking up from the ground under some trees on the west side of the north meadow, by the road. Might have been a guy wire for the telephone/electrical line.



A shot of the lake from the southern turf dam.



You can just see a large gander standing guard by the old cedar in the center of the north meadow. He remained there on alert for the two hours I was on site. I guess there must be a female with young nearby.



Walking the north meadow I spotted these fragments of china plate.



This vehicle looks a little too home-brew to be a factory-built truck. Perhaps it has something to do with the feature in the next photo.



If you look carefully you can see the ends of what appear to be long ramps that build up to a gap in the center where they meet. Accidental? Or part of some loading system?



Sayer and Fischer bricks are pretty ubiquitous in the pines, and I found some here as well.



Lastly, we all know the pines rub off on you, but here's proof that the pines _really_ rub off on you.



Full image gallery can be viewed here.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
Mark,

I enjoyed your report since I spent quite a bit of time there. Very nice! Unfortunately, many of our previous Howardsville links do not work in the posts, so here are a few photo’s you may find interesting.

I have the complete survey of Howardsville and spend a few months looking for all the stones. You were semi near two of them by the big tree, and drove by a few on the road. Also, there is an interesting structure that has been burned most likely by a forest fire that was related to the cranberry operation of the Penn Producing Company. They still owned Howardsville in the late 1950’s. Those poles were put there about 1941 and some maybe earlier. I have traced their route through the woods from 72. I also wrote Atlantic City Electric about them and they supplied me with the 1941 date in this email to me.



“Thank you for your e-mail.

I forwarded your e-mail to operations group for help. *The best we could find is that the pole in question is a private pole set in 1941.”



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We found this on our PBX hike.

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This is from the state purchase in 1959

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This one had a bolt in it.

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And this one ranks up there with the biggest property stones I have found.

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Guy
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
There are numerous poles and supports al over the place in the woods.

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If you ever go again, walk down the little road to the right just after you enter Howardsville Road and go to the location where the line curves that the arrows in the below photo are pointing to. This was the main power line path for all of Howardsville and you can still see the path through the woods.

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And go out on 72 and stand where the power lines crossed and look away from Howardsville and you can see the path even better. That would be where the bottom yellow arrow is pointing to.

Guy
 

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
73
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
I didn't realize until I looked at that aerial, and then went and looked at a topo, that those bogs once ran nearly all the way down to 72. You can clearly see the track of the power lines. Thanks for pointing that out.

Was Howardsville destroyed in a fire? Or did the state plow it under to restore the meadows?
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
I suspect they did the same as they did with Ace, removed them for safety and other reasons. At least three buildings were there in 1958 as this map shows. Somewhere I have another map that shows all of the buildings. I believe that was 1946. The main packing house was right by that big tree in your photo's.

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Guy
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
The state plows it as rye strips for deer.

They also let it grow for the fall small game season. There were hunters roaming around in it when we were on our PBX hike there.

Guy
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
Here is the survey map from July 28, 1947 that shows the buildings there. Also notice the bogs are numbered, and notice there are two threes. Apparently some of the larger bogs had a road through them but the two bogs were considered one. So looking the map over it shows 11 bogs with two of 8 and two of 3.

Also, notice it shows who sold the bogs to the Penn Producing Company. And the acres shown is just a small portion of the property.

howard.jpg


Guy
 

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
73
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
That's excellent, Guy. Thanks for posting that. The locations of the structures make perfect sense in terms of what is out there now. I find the easternmost structure interesting. That corner of the north meadow is pretty wet now, and I wonder what that lone building was out at the end of that loop.
 

Banjo

Scout
Apr 17, 2005
76
0
S.W. Missouri
Please excuse my complete lack of knowledge about the grave stones and most of the history of the area, but could some of those large property markers be the source of the stories of graves in the area?
 

Banjo

Scout
Apr 17, 2005
76
0
S.W. Missouri
Thanks for the info Ben. Now that I see the pictures, I do recall reading about them. Just forgot. Great site, I love it. I still need to get the rest of my Harrisville pics uploaded. That was what, three years ago that you had that outing?
 

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
73
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
Ben, are those graves associated with Union Clay, or Red Oak Grove? Is that the site Beck alluded to? It must be.

Edit: I went back and re-read the section of Forgotten Towns, and I think I had his description of what he found at Union Clay confused with Red Oak Grove. I didn't explore much on the west side of Clay Mine Rd. Have to go back now :).

Also, he mentions a pile of pipe "draped around what might have been a kiln", and I wonder now if that's the pile I saw.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
Mark,

The area you were at is where the steam engine for Union Clay was located. My guess its that location is where it all happened. If you look closely the person who made the fire break there ran into the ruins of a large building that can be followed.

There are other location around the area that have large pipes. One is in a hole in the ground that could have been a kiln. Here it is.

Pipes.JPG


Guy
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
26,004
8,769
In 2/2006 I visited where the bolts are, and found that someone had been camping there. It seems an odd place to camp unless maybe they were a hunter wanting to get to the stand early. They left quite a bit of trash.

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Guy
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,719
4,904
Pines; Bamber area
That really ticks me off to see a guy went to the trouble of camping in the woods and then left trash behind. What the hell was going through his head as he was leaving?
 
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