I don't know. I would think not, since some mammals eat snakes, so their senses would go haywire upon entering it. But, maybe someone will do a google search and find out its possible.
remote bogs
- Thread starter woodjin
- Start date
I don't know. I would think not, since some mammals eat snakes, so their senses would go haywire upon entering it. But, maybe someone will do a google search and find out its possible.
the den with the dog in it is a pine snake den.I personally new a biologist who tracked pines and he had put snake fence around a den just like this and caught over a dozen snakes mostly young ones and several big females when they came out.yes snake doo doo and shed skins of baby are common around communal dens.babies shed as soon as they come out of a winter den in spring and skins can be found in spring before they disintegrate.egg dens are much smaller and shallower and frequently have dried eggs around them.i know of a place where theirs one large presently used winter den and several egg dens around.whenever i find eggs i hide them because most people mistake pine snake dens for fox dens because their so large.the eggs would be a tip off though.that large den in your pic is a winter den and would probably house more then a dozen snakes.males hibernate seperately from hatchlings and females.they dig a hole straight down that soon becomes covered over and then they explode from the same spot in the sring which also soon weathers away.
Al
Al
I have a friend who studies and tracks them; part of his job. Here is his reply to my inquiries. I found it very interesting, and now realize how little I know about them. We were discussing the rattlesnakes too. I edited it some, and did not want to include his name, but I trust him very much. He admits to not having the experience of some of the older biologists, but he seems to have a very good start for a guy so young:
Hey Bob,
Interesting web sites. Its nice to see there is so much interest in southern New Jersey herps...I like how you tried to educate the ignorant person who was talking about deliberately running over snakes. The pictures of the rattlesnakes you had posted are awesome. It looks like you found a popular basking log that is especially attractive to snakes during ecdysis, or periods of shedding, which can last up to 2 weeks. I assumed this because the size of these snakes seems to indicate they are both males. Furthermore, they both appear drab and the black phase snake is clearly preshed. The log and adjacent sun spots likely provide a good thermal gradient that allows the snakes to warm up and cool down when desired. Additionally, the log provides a quick retreat when disturbed. This is especially attractive to shedding snakes, which are somewhat vulnerable during periods of the shedding process. Gravid female rattlesnakes prefer similar habitat features, especially when an open canopy is present. If this basking site is close enough to the den, you may see a gravid female visit the log and use it as a birthing rookery. Rattlesnakes often scent trail eachother and/or establish mental map of their preferred basking sites. This can result in aggregations of snakes at these sites during certain times of the year. I have seen this behavior in pine snakes as well. At a similar log in Burlington County, I had observed five different individual adult pine snakes on five seperate occasions. Most were preshed. I videotaped one gravid female that used the log and nested nearby. I managed to find some of the young shortly after the eggs hatched. Like the adults, I marked the individual snakes so I could distinguish them. The following year I returned to the log in late fall and found two of the 1 year old snakes I had marked. The siblings were 1 foot apart, and had obviously scent trailed the other snakes. I think people would really appreciate and respect these animals a lot more if they understood how interesting these animals can be. That is a really special rattlesnake spot you have found. Try not to bother the snakes, so you can continue to enjoy it.
I do not necessarily agree with some of the comments regarding pine snakes on the herp forum, but I always keep an open mind. Joanna Burger and Robert Zappalorti of Herpetological Associates probably have the most pine snake experience in the world. He has written the book on pine snakes and all his research is based in southern New Jersey. The following are some papers that you would probably be interested in:
Burger J and Zappalorti RT. 1986. Nest site selection by pine snakes, Pituophis melanoleucus, in the
New Jersey Pine Barrens. Copeia (1): 116-121.
Burger J and Zappalorti RT. 1991. Nesting behavior of pine snakes in the New Jersey Pine Barrens.
Journal of Herpetology 25(2): 152-160.
Burger J and Zappalorti RT. 1988. Hibernacula and summer den sites of pine snakes in the New Jersey
Pine Barrens. Journal of Herpetology 22(4): 425-433.
Burger J, Zappalorti RT, Dowdell J, Georgiadis T, Hill J, Gochfeld M. 1992. Subterranean predation
on pine snakes. Journal of Herpetology 26(3): 259-263.
These papers provide a detailed account of their burrow characteristics. The photo from Bill Love appears to be a pine snake nest with a very large dump pile (accumulation of excavated sand). I cannot conclusively say it is a pine snake nest without seeing the nest, especially its entrance. However, I believe Bill Love is known as an experienced herper, and he seems to have seen snakes using that nest site on other occasions according to his caption. Pine snakes excavate 3 types of burrows: hibernacula (or den sites), summer burrows, and nesting burrows (or nests). Hibernacula and summer burrows are similar in appearance. They have small entrance holes, usually with no dump piles. When I first saw one, I was surprised at how small the entrances are. The entrances should be small to prevent predation from mammals during the very susceptible hibernation period. During 2006, I did track a telemetered pine snake to an abandoned burrow with a larger entrance that was probably originally excavated by a small mammal. The snake hibernated in that burrow, which was likely abandoned by its previous mammal occupant. This has been documented on occasion. The snakes will use the abandoned mammal burrows, but excavate side chambers that cannot be accessed by most predators. These sites are probably much more sensitive to predation. The hibernacula the snake used did not appear to be a communal hibe. Summer burrows appear similar to dens, but are located within or near nesting habitat. Additionally, they often are much less extensive with few or no side chambers. These burrows are used more temporarily, often by gravid females during the nesting process. Hibernacula are typically located in an area within 5-600 meters of nesting habitats and summer activity areas. The extensive burrows with many side chambers are usually in forested areas with increased canopy cover, more vegetation cover, and more leaf litter. The tunnels are usually associated with fallen logs and decaying roots in the soil. Its extremely tough to locate the dens without radiotelemetry, as they appear as typical pine/oak upland forest. Most pine snake nests are more similar to summer burrows, but have a half moon-shaped entrance with a distinct dump pile. Photos seen on the on the NJ Pine Barrens web site do not appear to be typical pine snake nests, dens, or summer burrows. The dump pile is much too large to be a pine snake burrow/nest, unless it was ruthlessly predated by a mammal. Although I do not have as much experience as other biologists, I have never seen a pine snake den (or nest) similar to that.
Hey Bob,
Interesting web sites. Its nice to see there is so much interest in southern New Jersey herps...I like how you tried to educate the ignorant person who was talking about deliberately running over snakes. The pictures of the rattlesnakes you had posted are awesome. It looks like you found a popular basking log that is especially attractive to snakes during ecdysis, or periods of shedding, which can last up to 2 weeks. I assumed this because the size of these snakes seems to indicate they are both males. Furthermore, they both appear drab and the black phase snake is clearly preshed. The log and adjacent sun spots likely provide a good thermal gradient that allows the snakes to warm up and cool down when desired. Additionally, the log provides a quick retreat when disturbed. This is especially attractive to shedding snakes, which are somewhat vulnerable during periods of the shedding process. Gravid female rattlesnakes prefer similar habitat features, especially when an open canopy is present. If this basking site is close enough to the den, you may see a gravid female visit the log and use it as a birthing rookery. Rattlesnakes often scent trail eachother and/or establish mental map of their preferred basking sites. This can result in aggregations of snakes at these sites during certain times of the year. I have seen this behavior in pine snakes as well. At a similar log in Burlington County, I had observed five different individual adult pine snakes on five seperate occasions. Most were preshed. I videotaped one gravid female that used the log and nested nearby. I managed to find some of the young shortly after the eggs hatched. Like the adults, I marked the individual snakes so I could distinguish them. The following year I returned to the log in late fall and found two of the 1 year old snakes I had marked. The siblings were 1 foot apart, and had obviously scent trailed the other snakes. I think people would really appreciate and respect these animals a lot more if they understood how interesting these animals can be. That is a really special rattlesnake spot you have found. Try not to bother the snakes, so you can continue to enjoy it.
I do not necessarily agree with some of the comments regarding pine snakes on the herp forum, but I always keep an open mind. Joanna Burger and Robert Zappalorti of Herpetological Associates probably have the most pine snake experience in the world. He has written the book on pine snakes and all his research is based in southern New Jersey. The following are some papers that you would probably be interested in:
Burger J and Zappalorti RT. 1986. Nest site selection by pine snakes, Pituophis melanoleucus, in the
New Jersey Pine Barrens. Copeia (1): 116-121.
Burger J and Zappalorti RT. 1991. Nesting behavior of pine snakes in the New Jersey Pine Barrens.
Journal of Herpetology 25(2): 152-160.
Burger J and Zappalorti RT. 1988. Hibernacula and summer den sites of pine snakes in the New Jersey
Pine Barrens. Journal of Herpetology 22(4): 425-433.
Burger J, Zappalorti RT, Dowdell J, Georgiadis T, Hill J, Gochfeld M. 1992. Subterranean predation
on pine snakes. Journal of Herpetology 26(3): 259-263.
These papers provide a detailed account of their burrow characteristics. The photo from Bill Love appears to be a pine snake nest with a very large dump pile (accumulation of excavated sand). I cannot conclusively say it is a pine snake nest without seeing the nest, especially its entrance. However, I believe Bill Love is known as an experienced herper, and he seems to have seen snakes using that nest site on other occasions according to his caption. Pine snakes excavate 3 types of burrows: hibernacula (or den sites), summer burrows, and nesting burrows (or nests). Hibernacula and summer burrows are similar in appearance. They have small entrance holes, usually with no dump piles. When I first saw one, I was surprised at how small the entrances are. The entrances should be small to prevent predation from mammals during the very susceptible hibernation period. During 2006, I did track a telemetered pine snake to an abandoned burrow with a larger entrance that was probably originally excavated by a small mammal. The snake hibernated in that burrow, which was likely abandoned by its previous mammal occupant. This has been documented on occasion. The snakes will use the abandoned mammal burrows, but excavate side chambers that cannot be accessed by most predators. These sites are probably much more sensitive to predation. The hibernacula the snake used did not appear to be a communal hibe. Summer burrows appear similar to dens, but are located within or near nesting habitat. Additionally, they often are much less extensive with few or no side chambers. These burrows are used more temporarily, often by gravid females during the nesting process. Hibernacula are typically located in an area within 5-600 meters of nesting habitats and summer activity areas. The extensive burrows with many side chambers are usually in forested areas with increased canopy cover, more vegetation cover, and more leaf litter. The tunnels are usually associated with fallen logs and decaying roots in the soil. Its extremely tough to locate the dens without radiotelemetry, as they appear as typical pine/oak upland forest. Most pine snake nests are more similar to summer burrows, but have a half moon-shaped entrance with a distinct dump pile. Photos seen on the on the NJ Pine Barrens web site do not appear to be typical pine snake nests, dens, or summer burrows. The dump pile is much too large to be a pine snake burrow/nest, unless it was ruthlessly predated by a mammal. Although I do not have as much experience as other biologists, I have never seen a pine snake den (or nest) similar to that.
i have seen nests similar to the one pictured and found baby snakes emerging from it so it was a pine snake den.the smaller dens approximately 50 yards away had pine snake eggs scattered around them.mammal dens are genearally concealed.not out in the open like that.pine snakes always put their dens in a clearing in the sun.the den i observed baby snakes at was that big when i found it.they were using it up till 2 years ago when coyotes dug it up.i have observed no activity at it since thenm and the sand pile is eroding and is almost flat now.the coytoes i fear wiped this den out but i have seen fresh eggs at one of the smaller egg dens so their not a complete loss here.these pines were the red or pink phase variety.i know where many other dens are but this was the only red phase den i know of.i love most animals but I"m having issues with coyotes about now.
Al
Al
