State's biggest cranberry grower hopes to acquire land, expand

Teegate

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ebsi2001 said:
Jeff,

I am referring to the combined tax maps for parts of Stafford, Little Egg Harbor and Bass River Townships. On Wednesday last, we drove in --- off of 539 --- near Lucille's. In B.R. Twp. the road forks: The "lower fork" (left--hand fork) is called the "Warren Grove Road" on the B.R. tax map, whereas the "upper fork" (right--hand fork) is referred to as "unnamed road" on the same map. The left--hand fork bears a sign: "dead end" or "no outlet": We took the right--hand fork, which my guide referred to as the "Beaver Dam Road." The first bridge is intact; there are some homes on that road (evidently with trash collection); and a ranger/forester has a sign on his mailbox on the left--hand sidge of the road. Shortly after the last house is passed, the road gets very bad quickly, due to a couple of big washouts. There are giant, water--filled potholes, which can be skirted. After the three washouts are passed, a "corner" is reached with a semi--sandy "track" bearing to the left. At the end of that track there are two towers --- one has a "blinking," white light on it, in addition to what look to be "microwave links"... We did not venture past that corner, as my guide had learnt from a friend, who works for H&H, and who has been at Sim Place recently, that the second bridge on that road was "taken out" by H&H so that they could get their "heavy equipment" "back in there"...

"StevensRoad/Red Road" does not seem to be on my map, unless it is one of the so--called "unnamed roads"...

ebsi
Ebsi,

I think it would benefit you, and certainly help us know where you are talking about, if you use topozone to pinpoint where you think these bridges are, and any other place you mention to us about. That would eliminate confusion and speculation by all.


Here is Sim Place at the below link. All you need to do is maneuver around and click on the location you want us to answer to. Make sure the "Show Target" checkbox is checked so that the red target symbol shows up. And if you want you can change the "coordinate format" to any of the other three and pass the coordinates along, and most if not all of us can find the exact spot you are talking or describing about.


http://topozone.com/map.asp?lat=39.73583&lon=-74.42111

Guy
 

ebsi2001

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May 2, 2006
301
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southern NJ
"Beaver Dam Road"

TeeGate said:
Ebsi,

I think it would benefit you, and certainly help us know where you are talking about, if you use topozone to pinpoint where you think these bridges are, and any other place you mention to us about. That would eliminate confusion and speculation by all.


Here is Sim Place at the below link. All you need to do is maneuver around and click on the location you want us to answer to. Make sure the "Show Target" checkbox is checked so that the red target symbol shows up. And if you want you can change the "coordinate format" to any of the other three and pass the coordinates along, and most if not all of us can find the exact spot you are talking or describing about.


http://topozone.com/map.asp?lat=39.73583&lon=-74.42111

Guy
Yes, I must learn more about the GPS gizmo and the Topozone maps... Still thinking about my reply to your earlier posts on these matters...

As far as I can determine, we were at: "TopoZone Map 39.7354°N, 74.4127°W". We didn't progress past this point. The road we travelled--in on is marked by a red/black dashed line on the TopoZone map. When we came to the corner: TopoZone Map 39.7354°N, 74.4127°W, we stopped: a road of sorts lead south, at the end of which were two towers and some trucks/vans. One tower was more modern, and had what looked to be microwave dishes on it --- white, blinking light... The second tower was older --- looked like an old radio transmission tower --- painted red, with guide wires --- no blinking light, as far as I could determine. These two towers are not marked on the Topozone map. We did not see anything that looked remotely like a cranberry bog, but we didn't stray more than 10 to 15 feet from the road, either: My cane sinks into the sand, and I have trouble manouvering...

The first bridge I am referring to is on that "red/black road," east of "TopoZone Map 39.7354°N, 74.4127°W"--- i.e. between "TopoZone Map 39.7354°N, 74.4127°W," and Rte. 539 in Warren Grove. My guide referred to that road as "Beaver Dam Road," so did another of my sources, who was not with us. West of "TopoZone Map 39.7354°N, 74.4127°W" --- just beyond that corner is supposed to be a second bridge, which was supposedly "taken out" by H&H, but we did not venture that far, so I cannot say if this, indeed, is true...

Perhaps my guide meant a bridge that was on another road, but I do not think so. It is possible that his source of information meant another bridge on another road...

ebsi

Thanks for the map --- great stuff!
 

Teegate

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Those towers as I have mentioned are the FAA towers, but I believe you have the wrong locations. The road that you saw that leads to the two FAA towers is located here. You can see where this map mentions "Radio Tower" at the end of the road.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4400581&e=552437&s=50&size=s&u=5&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/WARRENGROVEFAA.jpg

The location you are referring to west of 39.7354_74.4127 is private property. Actually that location you were at is gated so if you were there you were on property that a month ago was off limits.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4398545&e=550299&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25


Also, to help you out even more, when you find a location on the map and place the red target symbol there, go to the top of your browser and copy the URL. That is the text that says http. Then paste it into your letter so that we can link right to it.

Guy
 

ebsi2001

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May 2, 2006
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southern NJ
"Beaver Dam Road"

TeeGate said:
Those towers as I have mentioned are the FAA towers, but I believe you have the wrong locations. The road that you saw that leads to the two FAA towers is located here. You can see where this map mentions "Radio Tower" at the end of the road.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4400581&e=552437&s=50&size=s&u=5&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/WARRENGROVEFAA.jpg

The location you are referring to west of 39.7354_74.4127 is private property. Actually that location you were at is gated so if you were there you were on property that a month ago was off limits.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4398545&e=550299&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25


Also, to help you out even more, when you find a location on the map and place the red target symbol there, go to the top of your browser and copy the URL. That is the text that says http. Then paste it into your letter so that we can link right to it.

Guy
Thanks for the links, maps and picture, Guy.

I saw reference to the tower(s) while "fooling around" with the TopoZone Map last evening, however, I did not want to believe that I was where the map was telling me I was --- for several reasons I won't/don't care to mention here...

We were definitely in the wrong place! I can't believe that we were "on the reservation"! No gate, no fence(s), no signs...

All other characteristics of the surroundings indicate that we were where the map says we were.

Hmmmm, this IS quite interesting...

I shall return!

"Gen. MacArthur," aka. ebsi

P.S.: The second tower was to the south and left of the tower in your photo. I do NOT recollect seeing any telephone or electric poles in the area, however... There seemed to be large boxlike trucks or vans parked around the first tower (the one with the microwave dishes)...

e.
 

ebsi2001

Explorer
May 2, 2006
301
0
16
southern NJ
"Beaver Dam Road"

TeeGate said:
Those towers as I have mentioned are the FAA towers, but I believe you have the wrong locations. The road that you saw that leads to the two FAA towers is located here. You can see where this map mentions "Radio Tower" at the end of the road.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4400581&e=552437&s=50&size=s&u=5&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/WARRENGROVEFAA.jpg

The location you are referring to west of 39.7354_74.4127 is private property. Actually that location you were at is gated so if you were there you were on property that a month ago was off limits.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4398545&e=550299&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25


Also, to help you out even more, when you find a location on the map and place the red target symbol there, go to the top of your browser and copy the URL. That is the text that says http. Then paste it into your letter so that we can link right to it.

Guy
Dear Guy,

From these maps, it looks like we were here:

USGS Woodmansie (NJ) Topo Map
View TopoZone Pro topographic maps, aerial photos, street maps, coordinate and elevation display39.7535°N, 74.3879°W (WGS84/NAD83)

(http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4400581&e=552437&s=50&size=s&u=5&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25)

when we THOUGHT we were here:

USGS Oswego Lake (NJ) Topo Map
View TopoZone Pro topographic maps, aerial photos, street maps, coordinate and elevation displayUTM 18 550299E 4398545N (WGS84/NAD83)

(http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4398545&e=550299&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25).

Do YOU know which of these two roads, i.e.

USGS Woodmansie (NJ) Topo Map
View TopoZone Pro topographic maps, aerial photos, street maps, coordinate and elevation display39.7535°N, 74.3879°W (WGS84/NAD83)

(http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4400581&e=552437&s=50&size=s&u=5&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25)

OR

USGS Oswego Lake (NJ) Topo Map
View TopoZone Pro topographic maps, aerial photos, street maps, coordinate and elevation displayUTM 18 550299E 4398545N (WGS84/NAD83)

(http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4398545&e=550299&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25).

is/was called "Beaver Dam Road"?

Second question: Do you know if a stage road ran from Cedar Bridge (today in Barnegat Township, Ocean County) to Cedar Grove (today known as Warren Grove), along the so--called "Beaver Dam Road" to Sim Place, and from there to Chatsworth?

ebsi

P.S.: The board shortened the URLS, and, although I get a TopoZone screen when I click on them, the map does not display. Am I doing something wrong? Can I do something to provide a better result?

e.
 

Teegate

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I fixed the links. The problem was you put the ) on the right side before the [/url] It must be to the right as in [/url]).

Guy
 

Teegate

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Beaver Dam road is the main road that passes the towers. If you turn onto Sim Place road from 539 at Lucille's and then make your first right heading toward the tower, you are on Beaver Dam Road. It continues up to Stephenson's road.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/teegate/main.php/download/1728-1/beaverdam.jpg

As for making the links better, all you need to do is copy the links in the URL which it appears you did, and then paste them into the post which it also appears you did. Why the () were at the beginning and end of the links is the real question. Eliminate them if you did put them there, and you are good to go.

I can't help you with your second question.

Guy
 

ebsi2001

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May 2, 2006
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southern NJ
"Beaver Dam Road"

TeeGate said:
Beaver Dam road is the main road that passes the towers. If you turn onto Sim Place road from 539 at Lucille's and then make your first right heading toward the tower, you are on Beaver Dam Road. It continues up to Stephenson's road.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/teegate/main.php/download/1728-1/beaverdam.jpg


Guy
Dear Guy,

Thank you for the map! Now, all I have to do is to find some cartridges for my DeskJet that will work...

Back to "Beaver Dam Road": That's the road I seek --- among other things. Looking at the map, it would seem that we WERE on "Beaver Dam Road," i.e. here...

http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4400581&e=552437&s=50&size=s&u=5&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

...and that "Beaver Dam Road" is on "The Reservation," which is "private (governmint) :) property." Am I correct in my analysis, Guy?

ebsi

P.S.: If I am correct, would it be too much trouble for you to mark on your ("Teegate") map the spot we visited, i.e. at the corner with the road leading towards the two towers to the south... Please...:D

e.
 

Teegate

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The road does go through the property and you were at the exact location your map points out when you saw the two towers down the road.

BTW, you can drive down to the gate by the towers and look around. It is locked so there is no way you or anyone can hurt anything.

Guy
 

ebsi2001

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May 2, 2006
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southern NJ
Beaver Dam Road

TeeGate said:
The road does go through the property and you were at the exact location your map points out when you saw the two towers down the road.

BTW, you can drive down to the gate by the towers and look around. It is locked so there is no way you or anyone can hurt anything.

Guy
Thanks, Guy.

On the map...

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/teegate/main.php/download/1728-1/beaverdam.jpg

...you posted previously, which is labeled "GPS Map Detail" in the lower right--hand corner, there are three "roads" that lead from the Beaver Dam Road to the south. Coming from Rte. 539, the first road crosses Beaver Dam Road, whereas the second and third roads just "branch off" (to the left) of Beaver Dam Road.

QUESTION: Can you tell me, based on the TopoZone map I posted previously, if we were standing at the first (crossroad) or second or third road, in order that we could see the two towers at the end of the road?

QUESTION: Is Beaver Dam Road on private property? I did NOT see any signs that would leave me to believe that it was, but maybe I missed something, or maybe someone had "purloined" governmint :jd: property...

QUESTION: Is the map, above, part of the software you purchased with your GPS device? Can you make changes to that map, i.e. add "marks," name roads, etc.?

ebsi

P.S.: The towers are of no virtual interest to me, per se. However, I would be interested to know, approximately, when they were built.

e.
 

Teegate

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Those GPS maps are not very accurate, so don't think they are anywhere near correct.

As for the tower it was there in 1962 when the Coastal Geodetic Survey first observed it. I reported on it for the second time in 2002.




HISTORY - Date Condition Report By
HISTORY - 1962 FIRST OBSERVED CGS
HISTORY - 20021020 GOOD INDIV

STATION DESCRIPTION

DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1962 (VBM)
THE STATION IS THE RED LIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE TOWER LOCATED
ABOUT 1 MILE WEST OF THE VILLAGE OF WARREN GROVE. IT IS A
FOUR LEGGED SELF SUPPORTED STEEL TOWER PAINTED IN ALTERNATE
SECTIONS OF RED AND WHITE WITH TWO FAN SHAPED MICROWAVE
REFLECTORS NEAR ITS TOP. THE OVERALL HEIGHT IS 300 FEET. IT IS
OWNED AND OPERATED BY THE FEDERAL AVIATION AGENCY. THE CALL
LETTERS WSY-2 ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

TO REACH FROM THE WARREN GROVE FIRE CO. IN THE VILLAGE OF
WARREN GROVE, GO SOUTH ON COUNTY ROUTE 539 FOR ABOUT 200
FEET TO A SIDE ROAD RIGHT. TURN RIGHT AND GO WEST ON A PAVED
ROAD FOR 0.3 MILE TO A ROAD FORK. TAKE RIGHT FORK AND GO
NORTH-NORTHWEST ON A PAVED ROAD FOR 0.8 MILE TO A GRAVELED SIDE
ROAD LEFT. TURN LEFT AND GO WEST ON THE GRAVELED ROAD FOR 0.3
MILE TO THE TOWER.

STATION RECOVERY (2002)

RECOVERY NOTE BY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTORS 2002 (GJT)

THE TOWER IS NO LONGER PAINTED RED AND WHITE. IT IS NEUTRAL
STEEL IN COLOR. IT NOW HAS NUMEROUS MICROWAVE REFLECTORS
MAINLY AT THE TOP. THE DIRECTIONS ARE ACCURATE EXCEPT THE GRAVELED ROAD IS NOW A ONE LANE PAVED ROAD.
 

ebsi2001

Explorer
May 2, 2006
301
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16
southern NJ
Beaver Dam Road, GPS Maps and the FAA Towers

TeeGate said:
Those GPS maps are not very accurate, so don't think they are anywhere near correct.

As for the tower it was there in 1962 when the Coastal Geodetic Survey first observed it. I reported on it for the second time in 2002.




HISTORY - Date Condition Report By
HISTORY - 1962 FIRST OBSERVED CGS
HISTORY - 20021020 GOOD INDIV

STATION DESCRIPTION

DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1962 (VBM)
THE STATION IS THE RED LIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE TOWER LOCATED
ABOUT 1 MILE WEST OF THE VILLAGE OF WARREN GROVE. IT IS A
FOUR LEGGED SELF SUPPORTED STEEL TOWER PAINTED IN ALTERNATE
SECTIONS OF RED AND WHITE WITH TWO FAN SHAPED MICROWAVE
REFLECTORS NEAR ITS TOP. THE OVERALL HEIGHT IS 300 FEET. IT IS
OWNED AND OPERATED BY THE FEDERAL AVIATION AGENCY. THE CALL
LETTERS WSY-2 ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

TO REACH FROM THE WARREN GROVE FIRE CO. IN THE VILLAGE OF
WARREN GROVE, GO SOUTH ON COUNTY ROUTE 539 FOR ABOUT 200
FEET TO A SIDE ROAD RIGHT. TURN RIGHT AND GO WEST ON A PAVED
ROAD FOR 0.3 MILE TO A ROAD FORK. TAKE RIGHT FORK AND GO
NORTH-NORTHWEST ON A PAVED ROAD FOR 0.8 MILE TO A GRAVELED SIDE
ROAD LEFT. TURN LEFT AND GO WEST ON THE GRAVELED ROAD FOR 0.3
MILE TO THE TOWER.

STATION RECOVERY (2002)

RECOVERY NOTE BY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTORS 2002 (GJT)

THE TOWER IS NO LONGER PAINTED RED AND WHITE. IT IS NEUTRAL
STEEL IN COLOR. IT NOW HAS NUMEROUS MICROWAVE REFLECTORS
MAINLY AT THE TOP. THE DIRECTIONS ARE ACCURATE EXCEPT THE GRAVELED ROAD IS NOW A ONE LANE PAVED ROAD.

Many thanks for your reply, Guy.

I spent a couple of hours today appending my BRT tax map by one more sheet. From the tax map data, it looks like Beaver Dam Road is on public ground...

Looking at the DeLorme Atlas of New Jersey, of the three roads off of Beaver Dam Road, that appear on your posted "GPS Detail Map," it looks like the "middle road" is the road that leads to the towers. If that, indeed, is correct, then that section of Beaver Dam Road where the "middle road" initiates, is located in Little Egg Harbor Township, Ocean County, although the towers, themselves might be located in Bass River Township, Burlington County...

Unfortunately, the tax maps do not show the "middle road."

As for the "tower": I have reason to believe that at least one of those towers is older than 1962, but I shall have to research the matter to produce anything more substantial than "just a hunch."

I notice that the second tower, which looks like it might be much older, is not mentioned in your posting. It looks like it might be WWII vintage --- or, at least from the 50's or early 60's. Do you have any information about it?

Do you know of any GPS maps that are "better" (more detailed) that that which you posted? I have seen DeLorme GPS Maps (software) advertised: Are they any better?

ebsi
 

Teegate

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Beaver Dam Road is public, the towers are just in Burlington County, and in fact just 4000 feet south of them is the location of the cement county marker #32 even though access to it is blocked off.

As for the towers is is obvious from the NGS info posted above that the original tower was the only one there in 1962. The report clearly states it was first observed in 1962 not that is was just built then. It most likely as you said was built much earlier, and the large tower is newer than 1962. I have a photo around here somewhere showing the tower in the mid 70's and I don't believe the big one was there then. I am not sure. In any event here is a grainy photo I took in the mid 70's showing the sign that was there.



Guy
 

ebsi2001

Explorer
May 2, 2006
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southern NJ
Beaver Dam Road & Little Egg Harbor Twp.

TeeGate said:
Beaver Dam Road is public, the towers are just in Burlington County, ...

As for the towers is is obvious from the NGS info posted above that the original tower was the only one there in 1962. The report clearly states it was first observed in 1962 not that is was just built then. It most likely as you said was built much earlier, and the large tower is newer than 1962.



Guy
Again, Guy, many thanks for the photo... This way I get to go into the woods more often than I might. It really means a lot to me.

Based on your comments, the road that turns left off of Beaver Dam Road and leads to the towers must be in Little Egg Harbor Township, Ocean County --- although it does not appear on their current tax map. Also, I fail to find the continuation of that road on the tax map for BRT, Burlington County, although the piece of ground allotted to the FAA is clearly marked.

I wonder if that road appeared on the tax maps from the 50's and 60's, when there were more (older) structures on Beaver Dam Road? Do you know of anyone who might have tax maps for that area from that era?

ebsi
 

Teegate

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ebsi2001 said:
Do you know of anyone who might have tax maps for that area from that era?

ebsi
No I don't. I wish I did.

Guy
 

ebsi2001

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May 2, 2006
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southern NJ
Old Tax Maps

TeeGate said:
No I don't. I wish I did.

Guy
Hmmm... There MUST be some, somewhere. I shall attempt to pursue this matter. I know someone who worked for the B.C. Mosquito Commission: Perhaps they have some old maps...(or know someone who does)?

ebsi