The Sarracenia Flava was Fleeced (Trumpet Pitcher Plant)

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,100
4,191
Pines; Bamber area
We have a large discrepancy if people think this rape of the land is beneficial and needed to sanitize the Pine Barrens. My opinion is that this population, being here 50 years, is established, and so if they produce hybrids...then they produce hybrids; so what. By the time hybrids change all the s. purpurea in the pines, we'll all be long passed on anyway.

Man being man, the pine barrens of 5,000 years ago are not the pine barrens of today. Our best shot at keeping them unique and natural is to not allow wholesale development or industry in this area. This other little bit of tinkering by selective removal of a small population is just nonsense and unpleasant to witness.
 
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Guy, Bob, Freerider, and others,

When all has been said and done, it is likely that the least intrusive action would have been to leave the exotic pitcher plants in place. Collateral damage caused by their removal was probably equally damaging to any native rare plant that shared habitat with the pitchers. What puzzles me , however, is what compels someone to tamper with or dramatically alter one of the worlds most pristine and unique wetland habitats, generally devoid of invasives due to high acidity and nutrient poor soils. Isn't the native floral display of our unique quaking bogs and savannahs comprised, for example, of such lovely plants as rose pogonia, white fringed orchid, orange crested orchid, calopogon, arethusa, marsh St. John's-wort, lance-leaved sabatia, three species of sundew, the northern pitcher plant, bog asphodel (found nowhere else in the world), gold crest, several species of bladderworts and milkworts gratifying enough! Let's put our efforts into sustaining these early successional habitats. But enough said on this matter. There are issues far more threatening that require our united attention. "Freerider" alluded to one of these above: the potential privatization of our public state lands. Consider as well that none of what we have discussed here matters if we can't find a solution to the all-terrain vehicular assaults that have pulverized so many of our wetlands. It is this issue, like the jetport threats of the past, that should unite us and be foremost in the minds of those who truly cherish our Pine Barrens.

Sincerely,
Lost Town Hunter
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
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Lost Town Hunter,

As you know it is mentioned by Beck that various individuals back then were planting odd plants to confuse or annoy Botanists, so in reality these plants may be that old. I suspect that very few people in the general public, and most likely very few individuals on this site even knew there were plants such as this in the pines. I didn't until recently. How detrimental can this particular plant be for these individuals to decide in a meeting somewhere that they should be removed? That just seems illogical to me. There are many other plants that they need to worry about. I remember you saying on our last outing that there were a few of them in the area we happen to be in at the time, and I suspect that when you visited them you did not have the overwhelming urge to remove them as these individuals did. I believe they need to keep their urges in check, and worry about what really matters such as protecting them and other plants from various illegal assaults.

Thank you for your posts. As always, I appreciate them.


Guy
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
www.youtube.com
Well lets not stop here,how about those annoying dandelions?How about all the plantain in my yard?What about all these damn phragmites that have ate up our native cattail swamps?They want to be useful let them do some real work.Those yellow pitcher plants were childs play.How about the kudzu down south,theres a challenge! Are they going to sneak in and whack those two cypress in Wharton down? What about evolution?I for one think it's nonsense but if it's true then survival of the fitest,if those plants weren't fit they'd of died off,with global warming they'll find their own way up here in another fifty years anyway.How do they think many plants and animals got to be where they are? man took em.You think those tortoises in the Galapagos and Aldabra swam there?Those were always islands volcanic in origin.Explorers dropped them off with the iguanas so they'd have a grubsteak any time they were in the area and hungry.Lets get rid of em,they are unnatural.Why don't we just axe ourselves,we're unnatural too.We no doubt will eventually.
PS
Why would folks who hold to the evolutionary paradigm be so hell bent on stopping change? They believe DNA has not only created itself but has been changing itself for millions of years but they want to stop it and hold it in a state of suspended animation????
I for one can't wait to see what I change into....oh hell,I already did it,an old man.Well "each after it's own kind" I guess is true after all.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,530
2,418
59
millville nj
www.youtube.com
can these plants be mail ordered? I"ll order a bunch and plant them somehwere these eggheads will never find them and then post pics and dare them to try.I may even have a go at hybridizing them with our own and really piss them off.The same folks probably own cats and dogs that have been bred into critters that hardly resemble the originals.
 

dogg57

Piney
Jan 22, 2007
2,912
375
Southern NJ
southjerseyphotos.com
can these plants be mail ordered? I"ll order a bunch and plant them somehwere these eggheads will never find them and then post pics and dare them to try.I may even have a go at hybridizing them with our own and really piss them off.The same folks probably own cats and dogs that have been bred into critters that hardly resemble the originals.

They are not cheap at all Al.This plant guy is a great guy If you want to buy plants.They are in Raleigh, NC

http://www.plantdelights.com/Sarracenia-flava-Yellow-Trumpet-Pitcher-Plant/productinfo/1012/
 

Boyd

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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Somewhat related, I just received this from the PPA...

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New Jersey's Rare Plant Protection Campaign
promolandscaper_hdrshdw.jpg

Did you know that even though New Jersey has a list of rare and endangered plant species, these plants are not yet protected by state law?
Of the more than 2100 native plant species in New Jersey, approximately 16% are at risk for extinction in the state and 39% are considered threatened to some degree. Already, at least 32 plant species have been extirpated. Some of New Jersey's rare plant species exist nowhere else in the world.
Pinelands Preservation Alliance, New Jersey Conservation Foundation, and the Partnerships for New Jersey Plant Conservation are collaborating on an effort to develop and implement legislation that will protect threatened and endangered native plants in New Jersey. We need individuals and organizations concerned with native plants and biodiversity conservation to sign on to support this effort.
Please view and feel free to distribute our Rare Plant Protection Sign-On Memo and Rare Plant Protection Fact Sheet. Additional information on rare plant protection in New Jersey can be foundhere.
Also, to kick off our rare plant protection campaign, PPA will host a presentation on February 28th at 7:00 pm by Dr. Jay Kelly on Rare and Endangered Flora of Barnegat Bay: from Pine Barrens to Jersey Shore. Details and registration information are available here.
Thank you for your support!
Carleton Montgomery
Executive Director
 

Spung-Man

Explorer
Jan 5, 2009
976
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Richland, NJ
loki.stockton.edu
OK, Here's what I've learned so far:

1) Phil Sheridan, Meadowview, had not received requests for Trumpet Pitcher Plants, but suggested whoever removed them did so was because they were not Pinelands natives.

2) In its Management Report for October, November & December 2011, the Pinelands Commission reported its "staff provided advice to a Villanova student regarding the permits that may be necessary for collecting pitcher plants in the Pinelands" (p.19, q).

It would be interesting to know how the staff responded. Could this be the actor?

Meadowview Biological Research Institute does splendid work on wetland preservation and restoration! If ever near Fredericksburg, VA, stop in and say hello.


Spung-Man
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,508
8,046
Thanks Spung-Man. We have determined they were not taken by the individuals who are planning on removing the non-native plants. These appear to have been stolen.

With that said, I would like all of you to read this and tell me how this makes me (Guy) look. Are the post(s) truthful or deceptive?

http://njtlc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=292&page=1


BTW, Thank You Tom! You are the man.

Guy
 

Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Somebody on that site seems to have a real chip on their shoulder. Thankfully they took the discussion over there so we don't end up with another thread in the slag heap here.
 

freerider

Explorer
Jan 3, 2008
271
11
Would be good if the discussions here could be only for memers to view and also if the forum conversation didnt appear in a google or other searches.
 

Boyd

Administrator
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
I don't have a problem with others reading what I've posted. Just keep in mind that the whole world is watching. In this case, I think the parties involved are members here also. But really, I don't think it's productive to have threads like "can you believe what so-and-so said on this other forum?"... if you don't like something on this site, say it here. Conversely, if you don't like something on another forum, say it over there.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,142
Coastal NJ
Tee, I wouldn't be too concerned. Seems there is no acitivity over there since 11/30/11, other than the post you linked to and a calendar thread.

Would be good if the discussions hear could be only for memers to view and also if the forum conversation didnt appear in a google or other searches.

And perhaps we should wear green sheets over our heads. IMO, there is nothing that is posted here that needs any secrecy, except maybe the snow forecasts.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,100
4,191
Pines; Bamber area
Joe won't get any sympathy from me. Some ORV drivers destroy wetlands. I have seen it first hand and have photos if he wants to see them. But I am not out on a crusade agains all ORV's. I don't mind people riding the trails and going through long-established mud puddles in non-sensitve areas for the fun of it. That does not bother me. The comraderie looks fun, and they seem like nice people...although some of the young ones can be a bit too much. Like that guy I watched a few weeks ago throw one of the bud light cans in the woods. He did it in front of many others, and nobody said a word. The lack of respect for our pines really pains me. I suppose it takes some experience to see just what we have here. It is a real treasure. Go to any neighboring state and tell me how easy it is to just pick a woods road and lose yourself for an afternoon.

Joe, you went over the top on this one. You read way too much into this thread. You should stop looking over your shoulder so much. Relax...go with the flow. There is no grand conspiracy to keep you out of the woods.

You dig?
 
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