What kind of snake is this?

Bobbleton

Bobbleton

Explorer
Mar 12, 2004
466
46
NJ
You took (some of) the words right out of my mouth. The first thing that occurred to me was "bullsnake" . . . which means it pretty much HAS to be a pinesnake with dark background coloration.

Its weird though . . . the only individual variation amongst pinesnakes I've seen has been the patterning . . . the background color has always been much much lighter. Just goes to show I guess--nomatter how much you've seen, there's always stuff you haven't.

-Bob
 
woodjin

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,363
357
Near Mt. Misery
Interesting. That would have thrown me if I saw that snake in the woods. I am only familar with the white coloration of pine snakes. A rare sight in the pines I suppose.
 
S

swwit

Explorer
Apr 14, 2005
168
1
It's hard to say without a closer look but that snake may be a hypomelanistic snake. It's definately unusual.
 
uuglypher

uuglypher

Explorer
Jun 8, 2005
381
18
Estelline, SD
swwit said:
It's hard to say without a closer look but that snake may be a hypomelanistic snake. It's definately unusual.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's much doubt about that, Swwit. The normaly black to dark brown parts of the pattern are definitely dilute. I didn't want to get into the niceties of the degrees of gradation possible in the various hypomelanotic states and the various forms of melanins and pheomelanins - not to mention the carotinoids ... although this individual pine snake would have been an interesting one in which to determine the pheomelanin and possibly carotinoid pigment distribution and density in those regions of the pattern (the background or "ground") ordinarily characterized as "cream" or "white". Some grad student with a Doctorate advisor (this is definitely NOT an M.S. project...) savvy in the ways of vertebrate pigments and color and pattern genetics could have a "field day" (or many such) investigating the pattern, hue, saturation, and value variants within one snake species. (I'd suggest either the milk snake or the corn snake, which have far more spread-out Gaussian curves of pattern and pigmentary hue, saturation, and value gradations than does the more stereotypical NJPB pine snake.)

Dave
 
uuglypher

uuglypher

Explorer
Jun 8, 2005
381
18
Estelline, SD
BobM said:
A similar colored one from another web site:

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/scie...nakes and lizards/legless lizards/Lpinesn.jpg
Click to expand...

Good eye, Bob-
This one is pretty much the usual coloration of the pinesnakes (sometimes referred to as Louisiana Pine snakes) seen in W. Louisiana and the adjacent cross-the-border regions of east Texas / Sabine River / Big Thicket swamp area - and in the west end of the Florida panhandle as well (a fresh road-kill). You can see why that picture by "Kingofthepines" (#12) put me in mind of the "Louisiana pine snakes".

That a few pine snakes from the NJPBs but many more in the south east of the U.S. can have generally this same coloration (with more yellow and tan in the "white" areas and slightly to markedly dilute black areas) is the sort of thing that "lumpers" like me use to argue for regional "race" or sub-population differences rather than for the numerous "sub-species" that the "splitters" like to claim as separate entries on their life lists.

Of all the pine snakes I've seen in the NJPBs, I'd guess that less than 2% or 3% would have been of this sort.

Dave
 
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