white stakes near Carranza monument

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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When traveling past Carranza monument, if you turn left just before
the railroad tracks and parallel them, after a couple of miles I came
upon a large area with a grid of white numbered stakes in the ground.

Someone spent alot of time palcing them over several acres.

Any idea as to why?

Ed
 

VTowner

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Ed--I'm curious about these markers. I keep coming across strange markers myself (though not in a grid like yours; see my "strange marker" post) and no one seems to be able to make sense of them. If I were to try to find them, you're saying if you go down Carranza road from Tabernacle, you'd go past the memorial, past the campsite, then follow the RR tracks to the left for about two miles? Just wanted to make sure. Thanks.
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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I found them while hiking the railroad tracks from Carranza to Chatsworth. I started where the tracks cross Carranza road. Two miles from Carranza road is a rough estimate. If you don't want to miss them, start at the dirt road on the west side of the tracks. They're before that road crosses the tracks. Further up the tracks there is what appears to be a pair of boxcar doors.
It's a nice hike to chatsworth, except that the railroad tracks are cut where they would have gone over the outflow from Chatsworth lake. So you have to hike out on the road that goes to Apple Pie hill (the two brick columns off of 532).

Another nice hike is the railroad tracks from Chatsworth to Atsion. Th railroad trestle is still intact over the Batsto river.

Do you know anything about the white PVC pipes I see sticking out of the ground in remote locations? They're about one and one half to two inches in diameter.

Ed
 

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I haven't come across any PVC pipes in the woods...I can't imagine what they'd be. They're driven into the ground? How far do they stick up?

Did you read my post called "Strange Marker" from mid February? I don't know what that is either.

I'll probably do the walk from Carranza to Chatsworth this weekend; hope your grid of markers is still there.
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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I saw some of the grid marker last Sunday. They're white and stick up about 18 inches.

I don't know what your "Strange Markers" are.

The PVC pipes are driven into the ground, and stick up about 2 feet. I've forgotten exactly where they are, but one is somewhere south and west of high crossing.
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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Teriffic pictures. Look at those bell bottoms! I miss the 70's.

your bridge picture is flipped.

You can't ride the rails anymore, the pines have grown up between the tracks.

I thought an occasional train still operated in 1978.
Can you supply a story to go with the pictures?

Ed
 

Teegate

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Ed,

Yes it is flipped. Every photo I have before 20 years ago is a slide, so when I use the slide scanner I just import it into Film Factory and leave the rotating for later. I slipped up on this one. I have since corrected it.


The story behind it is that my friend and I would eat lunch on that bridge whenever we were in the area. There is a road leading to it that is located behind the Hampton Furnace warehouse. That is the old brick foundation at Hampton Furnace. If you are facing the foundation with the RR tracks on your left, head to the right as if to head back to 206, and just around the corner about 100 yards or so is the access road.

I also had a Land Cruiser at the time and while eating lunch we noticed the one in the photo coming toward us on the tracks. He noticed my Land Cruiser parked near the bridge and stopped. He said he worked for the railroad (not JCRR) and did it all the time. He would lower the air pressure and the car would steer itself. He gave me a short ride down the tracks, and I was able to get one quick photo from the back.

That is a great spot to find lizards. I would catch them by their tail and within a few seconds the tail would "snap" off, and the lizard would run away.

Yes the trains did run in 1978, but I believe the below pictures show that by August of 78 they did not run. The photo below shows me at either High Crossing or the Apple Pie Hill intersection (Pine Crest). It was taken by my friend and developed in August of 78. Obviously by my coat the photo was taken in the winter or spring of 77/78. The picture I took on the back of the Land Cruiser was taken in the summer of 78, and the track shows solid rust. The trains must have stopped in the interim.

Guy


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/8-78Me&Train.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/Back.jpg
 

VTowner

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Ed--I saw your white markers (I think.) I encountered them on the other side of Carranza Road (i.e., if driving down Carranza Road from Tabernacle, I would have made a right at the tracks.) If they were the same ones (white squares on wooden sticks, some with arrows, some with letters), our best guess was they we outlining a dirtbike race course. There were certainly a lot of ruts and tire marks around that were more or less following the markers. Not sure if they're the same markers though.

Also, I did the hike from Chatsworth to Atsion. I saw the boxcar door and all the bridge trestles (I didn't realize there were 4). It was a great walk. We did have to circumvent the two spots where there are no longer bridges, but that was fun too.

westyvw--The "strange marker" post is in the new forum. You just have to use the little thing at the bottom to go back a page to the older posts. It's from 2/13. I'd repost it, but I tried to draw a diagram in it and it'll probably never come out right if I play with it.
 

Teegate

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When I was a freshman in high school at Lenape, the upper-class would cut and go to the "train wreck" on the JCRR line. There is a possibility that the doors came from the train wreck.... just guessing. I was never able to find out where it was.. they would not tell.

Guy
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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What year was that, Guy? The doors are at what I think is Pine Crest.

Ed
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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No, thats not them. Traveling down Carranza road, make a left at the tracks. The stakes are between the road and Pine Crest. They had # on them such as I9, I10, k1, k2, ect.

I'll try and get there this week to see if they are still there in any quantity. I did see a few driving through on March 17.

Ed
 

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I must have missed them then, or they're gone. I still don't know what they might be. When discussing it with my friends, they suggested that they might be some kind of school project, like a group would take a square and try to list everything living in there, but I have nothing to really go on. My response to them was that it was a pretty remote spot to be dragging out a bus load of kids.
 

Teegate

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Could they be testing water levels? Did they appear to be deep?

My mom drove a school bus for Cherry Hill schools, and she was the one who told me how to find Pasadena. She took kids there on a bus trip. She also drove a bus between the bogs at Whitesbogs after the teacher asked her to. She vowed never to do that again. So it could be a class project. Unlikely though.

I started high school in 1971.


Guy
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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These stakes were no more than 2 feet long, not very deep in the ground. They were there long enough that someone took the time to replace them, the old ones were on the ground with rotten bottoms.

They were definitely marking a grid, fuzzy recollection of 50 feet square. The letters went from A to atleast I, and the numbers from 1 to atleast 32.

I'll have to go back and check.
 

Teegate

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Ed and All,

My daughter and I walked the rails today from Carranza road to the white markers. Ed, your estimate of a 2 miles walk on their location was pretty close. I took my camera with me and you can view one at the link below. I have other photo of them if anyone wants them.

The photo shows what looks like a 28 but in reality it is 2 with an 8 below. All of the markers had a top number and a bottom number such as 1 over 11, 2 over 11, and 2 over 18.

Vtowners suggestion that it could be for a bike race may be correct, but if it is a marking system I have never seen before. There is a motorcycle trail right along the markers in some areas, and in some areas there is not.

They appear to be not very new because I picked one up and it had what appeared to be Termite damage on them. This would make me believe that they were at least from early last year or so.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/stake.jpg



Guy
 

ed

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Dec 31, 1969
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I also walked to them on Friday. When I was there last, 1998, there were many more, and many rows deep on both sides of the tracks. They looked new then, but there were many more old ones scattered around the ground. They had been replaced and had termite dammaged bottoms.
I don't buy the bike course theory, it's confineds to too small an area.

Did you notice the marks written on the north rail? They start at the white stakes, and appear to mark off .01 mile increments. They are hand written in white paint and start with 3.01 and accend in the direction of Chatsworth.

Ed
 

Teegate

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Ed,

I did notice those marks and took a picture of them.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/trackmarks.jpg


I did not post them because I was so annoyed at my camera for switching to B&W. Frustrating.

I assumed they had something to do with the markers. It appears that unless we find out who did this, we will never know the answer. It probably was something that we could never guess.

Guy
 

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Ed and Guy,

The markers that you guys are talking about are not the ones that I saw for the dirt bike race. (thanks for the pictures!) The ones I saw were on the other side of Carranza road and only had arrows and W's on them, no numbers, and marked out a course through trails. I totally agree that if they are (or were) in a grid, it wouldn't make any sense for a race course.

I'm even more intrigued now by the marks on the rail. I've never heard of anyone marking anything off in 1/100ths of a mile (what's that, 52 feet, 9 3/5 inches?) but it's close to your estimate that they were 50 feet apart. I have no idea what could have been going on out there.
 
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