You Decide

Feb 1, 2016
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I am hoping that full details are made public. The State and Pinelands Adventures should be given an opportunity as well to address specific claims and statements against them. On its surface I am fully in support of Cowboy Mike's Canoe Rental service. Having stated that I would like to know what additional facts (not heresay or speculation) are involved. I often drive by PA and have noticed their sign "No Lake Rentals" available. Now it makes sense as to why.
 

Rooftree

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On Pinelands Adventures' web site in FAQ under ABOUT US there is a question. Can I paddle on Atsion Lake? In response it states, "At this time we are offering canoe and kayak rentals to anyone who is camping at the Atsion Family Campground, the cabins on Atsion Lake, and the Goshen Pond Campground. You must be able to pickup and return the canoe and kayak in your own vehicle.
 
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Piney4life

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I am hoping that full details are made public. The State and Pinelands Adventures should be given an opportunity as well to address specific claims and statements against them. On its surface I am fully in support of Cowboy Mike's Canoe Rental service. Having stated that I would like to know what additional facts (not heresay or speculation) are involved. I often drive by PA and have noticed their sign "No Lake Rentals" available. Now it makes sense as to why.
We will all see soon enough im sure
 

Piney4life

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Oct 8, 2015
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I am hoping that full details are made public. The State and Pinelands Adventures should be given an opportunity as well to address specific claims and statements against them. On its surface I am fully in support of Cowboy Mike's Canoe Rental service. Having stated that I would like to know what additional facts (not heresay or speculation) are involved. I often drive by PA and have noticed their sign "No Lake Rentals" available. Now it makes sense as to why.
I would suggest going over to atsion this weekend to anyone who wants to talk to cowboy mike and hear it right from him.
 
Feb 1, 2016
273
133
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49
Camden County, NJ
What does that sign mean, in entirety?
Not sure of your question, but my reading/interpretation is that they (PA) are unable to rent canoes/kayaks for folks who wish to go onto the lake. As another poster commented they do however appear to be able to rent to folks who are staying at the adjacent campgrounds or cabins. Conversely I wonder if this means that Cowboy Mike's operation has exclusive use of Atsion Lake for the purposes of rentals not affiliated with camping/cabins. Interesting. I also wonder if when Adam's ran that area if he had exclusive livery rights for the Mullica/Batsto/Atsion Lake? I am a big fan of market competition and I am rooting for Mike's to succeed, I would just love to hear the story from all parties.
 
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Piney4life

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Not sure of your question, but my reading/interpretation is that they (PA) are unable to rent canoes/kayaks for folks who wish to go onto the lake. As another poster commented they do however appear to be able to rent to folks who are staying at the adjacent campgrounds or cabins. Conversely I wonder if this means that Cowboy Mike's operation has exclusive use of Atsion Lake for the purposes of rentals not affiliated with camping/cabins. Interesting. I also wonder if when Adam's ran that area if he had exclusive livery rights for the Mullica/Batsto/Atsion Lake? I am a big fan of market competition and I am rooting for Mike's to succeed, I would just love to hear the story from all parties.
Cowboy mike will be at atsion this weekend go talk to him.
 

bobpbx

Piney
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Oct 25, 2002
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Pines; Bamber area
Not sure of your question, but my reading/interpretation is that they (PA) are unable to rent canoes/kayaks for folks who wish to go onto the lake. As another poster commented they do however appear to be able to rent to folks who are staying at the adjacent campgrounds or cabins. Conversely I wonder if this means that Cowboy Mike's operation has exclusive use of Atsion Lake for the purposes of rentals not affiliated with camping/cabins. Interesting. I also wonder if when Adam's ran that area if he had exclusive livery rights for the Mullica/Batsto/Atsion Lake? I am a big fan of market competition and I am rooting for Mike's to succeed, I would just love to hear the story from all parties.
My questions kind of follow yours. Seems unnecessarily complicated to me.
 

Rooftree

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It sounds to me, that anyone staying at the Atsion campgrounds or cabins can use their own canoe or rent one from any canoe rental of their choice as long as they transport the rental canoe in their own vehicle.
 
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Teegate

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Most if not all of what is being said here is true but if you really want to know you should follow Piney4life's suggestion and visit him at Atsion this weekend.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
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Oct 25, 2002
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Pines; Bamber area
Most if not all of what is being said here is true but if you really want to know you should follow Piney4life's suggestion and visit him at Atsion this weekend.
Nope. This is hot enough to catch fire. I'd not trust anything anyone told me at this point. I'd have to see written agreements. This is for the courts to settle.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
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Summer would be over by the time you finish reading the contract.
Yep, and how many of us actually read the contracts?

This is a general termination clause in the one above. I'd bet Cowboys has the same. It's why God created Attorney's.

D. Notwithstanding any provision or language to the contrary, Department may terminate this Agreement, in whole or in part, solely for the convenience of the State, by ninety (90) days written notice to Concessionaire sent by regular and certified mail return receipt requested. Upon receipt of such notice, Concessionaire may choose for such termination to become effective immediately, or may instead continue to operate the Concession in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement for a period not to exceed ninety (90) days after receipt of the notice or until the end of the current Agreement Term, whichever occurs sooner.
 

Piney4life

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Yep, and how many of us actually read the contracts?

This is a general termination clause in the one above. I'd bet Cowboys has the same. It's why God created Attorney's.
What you are looking at is a draft of the new contract not the existing one
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
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What you are looking at is a draft of the new contract not the existing one
As noted in the post, it is also for a boat/livery, not a mobile/livery. I don't think it is a draft as it is not labeled as such and is on their web site for an open concession; Belleplain. As I said, 'similar', but I would be surprised if there were items as fundamental as termination that are different from year to year. The owner of the concession at another state park has the exact clause from 2016. I guess we shall soon find out.
 
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Piney4life

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As noted in the post, it is also for a boat/livery, not a mobile/livery. I don't think it is a draft as it is not labeled as such and is on their web site for an open concession; Belleplain. As I said, 'similar', but I would be surprised if there were items as fundamental as termination that are different from year to year. The owner of the concession at another state park has the exact clause from 2016. I guess we shall soon find out.
The owner at belleplain is out after 16 years of service. jimmys canoe