Chatsworth Atv park
- Thread starter ICANOE2
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Yeah, it's a shame.
We have the DEP that promised to get lands for riders in exchange for shutting down access to State land and increasing penalties. We also have environmental groups that lobby against anywhere that the state wants to put up a park. Not that the state has really tried hard. This was just a money grab from the beginning. Too bad we can't hold Bradley Campbell responsible for this. He's not with the DEP anymore. It amazes me how he can sleep at night.
A year or two ago I spoke with the PPA about this, since they were very vocal about not allowing any new parks to open. They said that they would work on setting up a new commission that I would be involved in to try to come to some sort of understanding as to how to best deal with the problem. That never happened - no big surprise there.
I'm not a rider, but I feel bad for these people. We live in a state where you're allowed to buy and own an ATV, the state wants you to register and insure one, but won't let you ride it anywhere but on your own private property.
I don't really see why the New Jersey Conservation Foundation wouldn't want to renew the ORV park lease. The land is already pretty much destroyed, it has no historical context whatsoever, and it keeps a lot of people out of other places that would be ruined by heavy ORV use. This is absolute short sightedness.
We have the DEP that promised to get lands for riders in exchange for shutting down access to State land and increasing penalties. We also have environmental groups that lobby against anywhere that the state wants to put up a park. Not that the state has really tried hard. This was just a money grab from the beginning. Too bad we can't hold Bradley Campbell responsible for this. He's not with the DEP anymore. It amazes me how he can sleep at night.
A year or two ago I spoke with the PPA about this, since they were very vocal about not allowing any new parks to open. They said that they would work on setting up a new commission that I would be involved in to try to come to some sort of understanding as to how to best deal with the problem. That never happened - no big surprise there.
I'm not a rider, but I feel bad for these people. We live in a state where you're allowed to buy and own an ATV, the state wants you to register and insure one, but won't let you ride it anywhere but on your own private property.
I don't really see why the New Jersey Conservation Foundation wouldn't want to renew the ORV park lease. The land is already pretty much destroyed, it has no historical context whatsoever, and it keeps a lot of people out of other places that would be ruined by heavy ORV use. This is absolute short sightedness.
My question is why would they buy them if they have no where to ride them?????????
I can legally buy guns, how about someone open up a public range for my hobby? Why do people think the government owes them?
I can legally buy guns, how about someone open up a public range for my hobby? Why do people think the government owes them?
Because it's a fairly recent development that you can't ride them anywhere. That law was passed in 2003, if I remember. So instantly, you had an entire swath of people who already owned ATV's who now had no place to ride.
Second, the DEP promised that there would be two new parks opened by 2005. That never happened. What has happened is the collection of $1000 fines when an ATV rider is caught, and the confiscation of the vehicle if it's not registered with the DMV.
I don't have a problem with keeping the ATV riders off state land. That's all fine and well. But, the state needs to keep it's promise about building those two new parks. Otherwise, treat ATV's like you do any other motorized vehicle, and allow them on the roads in state land.
And, there are plenty of public rages for your hobby. http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/ranges.htm
Second, the DEP promised that there would be two new parks opened by 2005. That never happened. What has happened is the collection of $1000 fines when an ATV rider is caught, and the confiscation of the vehicle if it's not registered with the DMV.
I don't have a problem with keeping the ATV riders off state land. That's all fine and well. But, the state needs to keep it's promise about building those two new parks. Otherwise, treat ATV's like you do any other motorized vehicle, and allow them on the roads in state land.
And, there are plenty of public rages for your hobby. http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/ranges.htm
There aparently is a new park going to open. The one in Ocean County will be east of the Parkway in Egg Harbor Township.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771124009
Guy
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771124009
Guy
I would rather see an ATV rider in the pines than an irresponsible 4 wheeler, you should have seen the action me and Don seen on Dover Road Sunday.
Jim
Jim
All off-roaders are asking for is the same thing car owners want. We pay a tax on fuel and registration fees so we can have places to operate them.
Imagine the government banning operation of vehicles on public roads, they do pollute. NJ DEP announcement:http://www.nj.gov/dep/newsrel/2007/07_0047.htm
Imagine the government banning operation of vehicles on public roads, they do pollute. NJ DEP announcement:http://www.nj.gov/dep/newsrel/2007/07_0047.htm
I was watching News 12 yesterday and there was a story regarding the DEP letting the state open an ATV/OFF ROAD "area" where there was an old strip minning location in the southwest portion of our state. I also heard that there was to be another area for ATV's to be opened in Ocean county. There was also no mention of the Chatsworth park. I used to ride back in the 80's and early 90's but gave it up. I respected the resource, but there were always the few who did not.
Nimby
Not in my back yard.
When I used to drive a concrete truck we poured alot of concrete in the ginormous senior citizen developments in ocean county. Very early on as the roads were cut in the foundations were poured and people moved into the first houses. One day as I am on my way in to pour another foundation, a man who is now living in one of the first houses was standing at the edge of the road shaking his fist at me. He was upset that the truck was going down his road. When I brought the very load that became his foundation, he wasn't there, but because I was bringing concrete for his neighbor, he didn't want that noisy, ugly, smelly truck going past. I was a young man at the time in my 20's but this has stuck with me all these years. The pure selfishness by a man 30 years my senior shocked me.
And I have watched this attitude continue my entire life. We would have never had automobiles if people complained about them the way they do about off road vehicles. After all, before roads, every vehicle was an off road vehicle.
All I'm saying is try to be a little more tolerant of other people. Just because you don't golf doesn't mean there shouldn't be golf courses. Just because you don't boat doesn't mean there shouldn't be navigable waterways for boaters. And just because you already had your washer and dryer delivered doesn't mean you should now ban trucks from your road.
Thanks, Tom
Not in my back yard.
When I used to drive a concrete truck we poured alot of concrete in the ginormous senior citizen developments in ocean county. Very early on as the roads were cut in the foundations were poured and people moved into the first houses. One day as I am on my way in to pour another foundation, a man who is now living in one of the first houses was standing at the edge of the road shaking his fist at me. He was upset that the truck was going down his road. When I brought the very load that became his foundation, he wasn't there, but because I was bringing concrete for his neighbor, he didn't want that noisy, ugly, smelly truck going past. I was a young man at the time in my 20's but this has stuck with me all these years. The pure selfishness by a man 30 years my senior shocked me.
And I have watched this attitude continue my entire life. We would have never had automobiles if people complained about them the way they do about off road vehicles. After all, before roads, every vehicle was an off road vehicle.
All I'm saying is try to be a little more tolerant of other people. Just because you don't golf doesn't mean there shouldn't be golf courses. Just because you don't boat doesn't mean there shouldn't be navigable waterways for boaters. And just because you already had your washer and dryer delivered doesn't mean you should now ban trucks from your road.
Thanks, Tom
What the heck is the Issac Walton League of America and if they really are the defenders of soil, air woods waters and wildlife do they drive vehicles soly powered by their own senses of self- satisfaction?
Guy I think you are correct that the second prong is going to be a complete vehicle ban, and maybe next a total ban of human presence on state property. I hope I'm wrong, but if you look at Lisa Jackson on the DEP homepage that eagle is obviously under her spell!
Tom
Guy I think you are correct that the second prong is going to be a complete vehicle ban, and maybe next a total ban of human presence on state property. I hope I'm wrong, but if you look at Lisa Jackson on the DEP homepage that eagle is obviously under her spell!
Tom
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I believe Ive met the lady in the article, Jaclyn Rhoads, at a seminar on offroad vehicle useage in the pines. Every time something was mentioned about orv's, she'd roll her eyes. They are so hell bent on keeping orv's out of the woods. Every time a proposal for a park comes up, it is met with roadblocks. I know Dale Frietas well (the guy trying to open this park) and hope this goes through.
Yeah, I tangled with Jaclyn Rhoads a while ago when I posted a piece about the PPA and ORV's on my site a while ago.
http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/showthread.php?t=2896
The original editorial is gone because I had a talk with Russ Juleg and he had me convinced that the PPA wasn't really all about banning ORV's everywhere.
Hearing about Jaclyn Rhoads in this thread, perhaps it was unwise of me to delete that article. Maybe Russ or the rest of the PPA folk should chime in sometime.
http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/showthread.php?t=2896
The original editorial is gone because I had a talk with Russ Juleg and he had me convinced that the PPA wasn't really all about banning ORV's everywhere.
Hearing about Jaclyn Rhoads in this thread, perhaps it was unwise of me to delete that article. Maybe Russ or the rest of the PPA folk should chime in sometime.
I do not think the public owes me anything. I enjoy the hobby and just want to ride where I won't be harassed. I will continue to ride in the state parks and wildlife management areas with my registered, insured and street legal enduro bike. The quads and non-street legal bikes will always be out there whether there is a legal place to ride or not.
And there are public gun ranges.
Everyone keeps mentioning promises which were made in 2003 and not kept. That's unfortunate but does it really surprise you that politicians make promises which they don't keep? Seems to me that it all boils down to a political issue now; if ATV riders are a big enough special interest group and apply pressure in the right places, maybe they'll get what they want. Otherwise this will continue to be just one more promise which politicians haven't delivered on. If there was actually a legal obligation for the state to provide an ATV park then maybe you would have a leg to stand on, but I suspect that's not the case.
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